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A Stressful Activity
Raj K
Posted: 17 September 2023 15:10:16(UTC)

Joined: 22/04/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,819

NoMoreKickingCans;279496 wrote:
Anyone know about plastering standards ?

Have had some walls done. The boarded partition wall is Ok as it was only skimmed. Another wall was new blockwork built and measured as plumb, but when I put a level on the plaster it is now maybe 8mm out from true across a 2.4m wall (this seems shocking to me). Also had an old brick wall which was well out of plumb at the top part which the plasterer doesn’t seem to have made any effort to square up at all, despite me raising it with him prior. (Indeed the new plaster is now far less plumb/true than the 80 year old plaster I took off!)

Anyone know if these problems can be corrected by applying further plaster over the skim coat to make it truer ?


It does seem odd that a new built wall that has been freshly rendered and skimmed will be out as much as 8mm. I wouldn’t expect it to be perfect but that does seem excessive.

There must be a way to reskin on top of that wall. It happens all the time when people redecorate. Ive seen plasterers Pva the wall then put a new top coat on.

Whatever you do get a plasterer that just does plastering, not some multi skilled trade and ask for different opinions on the solution.

Unfortunately it seem so common these days to get sub standard tradesmen even those that demand top dollar.
Luca Brasi
Posted: 17 September 2023 15:21:09(UTC)

Joined: 23/03/2017(UTC)
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There is a you tube channel-'New Home Quality Control ' that highlights the shocking/appalling standard of new homes being "thrown up" and deemed as ok by the developers .
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Frank Spencer on 18/09/2023(UTC)
Sara G
Posted: 17 September 2023 17:23:40(UTC)

Joined: 07/05/2015(UTC)
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NMKC, apologies if you have already addressed this, but do you think you might advance more quickly (and at a better standard) if you were to end the relationship with your current builder? There's a certain element of the sunk costs fallacy to employing builders, perhaps.

Regarding the plastering, I agree with the comment above, that it's better to use a plasterer than a general builder.

I'm meeting a prospective Project Manager this week, so feeling more positive. Onwards and upwards...
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NoMoreKickingCans on 18/09/2023(UTC)
NoMoreKickingCans
Posted: 18 September 2023 07:16:42(UTC)

Joined: 26/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 4,470

The plastering has been done by a plasterer and not a general builder. Of course the only thing is it is the builder that has chosen the plasterer - which is overall a huge problem with using a builder in the first place. The plasterer has remarked that he does work for other builders, and his van doesn’t bear any markings or logos at all but is fully kitted out for plastering. The better tradespeople have tended to have vans emblazoned with their own business name.

The old plaster was plumb but very old often hollow and cracked in places and therefore covered in lining paper. When you have knocked it all off to renew I think you naturally expect to get something pretty smooth and plumb, not ‘perfect’ but within say 2-4mm (?) over a wall.

What is worrying me is that the large open plan room is yet to be done. The blockwork is good and plumb and windows will produce grazing light. If this guy can’t plaster a 2.5m by 2.5m plumb block wall and keep it plumb then doing a 7m by 3m wall concerns me. In the end it seems to me the quality of the finish is important to the finished result - nobody is going to admire the hidden structure of a building, they only ‘see’ the finishing. Overall I am spending a lot of money and don’t want to sit cursing mediocre plastering for the next 20 years.

This stuff is causing huge conflicts with my spouse now, who now ‘just wants to get it done’. Every time there is a quality issue she wants to let it go, but I can’t see why you should spend vast sums and then accept a dodgy finish. This whole thing has been so long and painful and the stress and fatigue unending it generates the temptation to ‘just give up’ - do anything and accept anything just to get it finished.

There have been so many issues and delays caused by builder screw ups, once something gets cocked up you are left with - accept it, or face further delays for rework which then doesn’t always fully resolve the the problem. Everything would just be far more profitable and faster for the builder if they just did consistent quality work right first time. But they seem to be unable to grasp that.
SF100
Posted: 18 September 2023 08:23:18(UTC)

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Raj K on 18/09/2023(UTC)
Raj K
Posted: 18 September 2023 08:30:12(UTC)

Joined: 22/04/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,819

SF100;279556 wrote:
Wall & plastering tolerances for new builds:
https://nhbc-standards.c...1-3-walls-and-ceilings/



Wow

so it looks like NMKC’s 8mm plaster wall deviation from plumb is acceptable up to story height of 3m
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Rookie Investor on 28/09/2023(UTC)
Sara G
Posted: 28 September 2023 08:25:58(UTC)

Joined: 07/05/2015(UTC)
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For anyone affected by rogue builders, the following petition may be of interest:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636359

I know these things probably don't make a difference, but it's amazing to me that we don't already have decent protection for the consumer in this field.

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Rookie Investor on 28/09/2023(UTC)
Rookie Investor
Posted: 28 September 2023 09:29:07(UTC)

Joined: 09/12/2020(UTC)
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Sometimes the best form of attack is to play defence; government petitions seem to be a bit pointless.

By defence I of course mean be VERY careful about making the decision to do building work in the first place. If you have to do it, only proceed with those who you know you can trust (and even then keep on top them so they don't see you as naive and take advantage). Otherwise just don't bother. In this way capitalism will hopefully work better and weed out the rogue/cowboy/poor builders and force them to go out of business and hopefully carry out labour work in areas where they can't' inflict damage to people (things like rubbish collection, street cleaners etc).

I may sound like a parrot or even p!ss some people off on here by repeating the above many times but I don't care. The above can never be over stated, and if it makes someone reading my comments think twice, its been well worth it.

I have noticed in recent years people behaving in very rude/condescending/demanding manner. Much more so than previously such that it makes me notice it. This has happened to me for following people I have interacted with over the last few years:

- various estate agents
- various family members
- and of course builders/contractors

It might just be me getting older and this behaviour was always present. Or people have changed since covid?
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xiang zou on 22/02/2024(UTC)
NoMoreKickingCans
Posted: 11 January 2024 22:43:49(UTC)

Joined: 26/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 4,470

copied over from the bust watchers topic...
Quote:
You can try taking these cowboy builders to court (which i am sure you have considered).

May be different if they are complete cowboys perhaps, but I have been advised not to go the court route given the costs and long timescales, and that a court can have difficulty in seeing through the BS in what becomes a he said/she said type situation.

It is important to have a contract retention, and never to have paid for anything in advance, only as it is completed. Unfortunately they may bill items as fully complete before they are, and items may not be explicitly mentioned in the quote even when they are part of the specification.

Each situation will differ of course. In general it does seem there is a subset of builders/trades that are largely focussed on making supernormal profits by cutting corners, using cheap poor subcontractors etc. The builders relationship with their subcon trades is opaque so it is never clear whether they are articially increasing their profit by instructing trades to do the minimum, or using ‘job & knock’ arrangements etc.

I am glad to see filing requirements for small ltd companies are being increased to require P&L accounts to be filed. It seems common to find the company files little financial information and regularly extends accounting periods from 12 months to 18 months etc. So you end up blind over whether the company has any cash or working capital or debts or is making any profits.
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Sara G on 12/01/2024(UTC)
Max Bezm
Posted: 18 January 2024 08:10:39(UTC)

Joined: 18/03/2023(UTC)
Posts: 56

From my own experience, I know how stressful building can be. We bought a house about two years ago and still haven't finished the renovation (we also built an additional room and a patio). The bathroom is our next step.
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