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Aminatidi
Posted: 07 January 2023 10:56:53(UTC)
#723

Joined: 29/01/2018(UTC)
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Johan De Silva;252881 wrote:
Aminatidi it is absolutely a NAV thing and your are plotting a chart to help support your narrative.

If you are to instead plot a chart looking forward into the future from wide discounts today you would see the gearing like impact of discount narrowing that more than covers the fee. But you know all this but rightly pointing out the flipside or for a buy and hold forever investor.


If what you suggest will happen does happen then sure.

I genuinely never know whether I'd feel comfortable looking at a NAV on Trustnet whilst my actual investment value in HL or wherever was down 30%.

Honestly I'm not intentionally myopic about it like I said people have to do what works for them and I'm sure plenty of people feel the same about plenty of other investments.

In spite of the above I spent a while on Thursday wondering whether to have a nibble and still haven't entirely decided.

It's almost like once you see the fee it's hard to unsee it and overlook it.

Very conflicting πŸ˜‘
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3 users thanked Aminatidi for this post.
Alfa 2 on 07/01/2023(UTC), Sheerman on 07/01/2023(UTC), dlp6666 on 07/01/2023(UTC)
SF100
Posted: 07 January 2023 11:22:50(UTC)
#725

Joined: 08/02/2020(UTC)
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Some random thoughts:

Lots of 'untypical dabblers' these days - is this a new era of investing - could go on a while

RCP would never get above 5 - 10% of my p/f

Is 10yrs a long enough duration for RCP, or should we be thinking much longer

Aminatidi's chart wld look a lot different if the FTSE was hedged to £ and aRcp was NAV rather than SP. Not bad for a trust <100% equities

If you have no interest in PE or funky hedge sh*t or where UHNW toffs make their money, steer clear

If fee's are everything, stick to low cost trackers and enjoy having shed loads of $ exposure dominated by few mega caps

Let's not overcomplicated things - we have seen over many threads what happens after writing screeds of waffle justification only to end up dissatisfied - yes it seemingly has high fees - but a decent long term track record on NAV - and most importantly it offers another avenue of diversification - it could go up down or sideways, just like everything else, but over the long term I expect healthily upward
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10 users thanked SF100 for this post.
Robin on 07/01/2023(UTC), Phil 2 on 07/01/2023(UTC), Tim D on 07/01/2023(UTC), Aminatidi on 07/01/2023(UTC), Sheerman on 07/01/2023(UTC), Thrugelmir on 07/01/2023(UTC), Mr GL on 07/01/2023(UTC), Logic Prophets on 07/01/2023(UTC), dlp6666 on 07/01/2023(UTC), William P on 09/01/2023(UTC)
Phil 2
Posted: 07 January 2023 11:36:48(UTC)
#730

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β€œIs 10yrs a long enough duration for RCP, or should we be thinking much longer?”

Personally speaking I’m thinking of a duration of approx 1-2 weeks. I think a fair few of us are just trading this around its volatile discount which keeps offering ostensibly easy short term returns. The Telegraph might have just made this easier this week?
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5 users thanked Phil 2 for this post.
Aminatidi on 07/01/2023(UTC), Jesse M on 07/01/2023(UTC), Mr GL on 07/01/2023(UTC), smg8 on 07/01/2023(UTC), William P on 09/01/2023(UTC)
Robin
Posted: 07 January 2023 11:39:09(UTC)
#726

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SF100;252885 wrote:
Some random thoughts:

Lots of 'untypical dabblers' these days - is this a new era of investing - could go on a while

RCP would never get above 5 - 10% of my p/f

Is 10yrs a long enough duration for RCP, or should we be thinking much longer

Aminatidi's chart wld look a lot different if the FTSE was hedged to £ and aRcp was NAV rather than SP. Not bad for a trust <100% equities

If you have no interest in PE or funky hedge sh*t or where UHNW toffs make their money, steer clear

If fee's are everything, stick to low cost trackers and enjoy having shed loads of $ exposure dominated by few mega caps

Let's not overcomplicated things - we have seen over many threads what happens after writing screeds of waffle justification only to end up dissatisfied - yes it seemingly has high fees - but a decent long term track record on NAV - and most importantly it offers another avenue of diversification - it could go up down or sideways, just like everything else, but over the long term I expect healthily upward



This is spot on in my view.
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5 users thanked Robin for this post.
Aminatidi on 07/01/2023(UTC), SF100 on 07/01/2023(UTC), Sheerman on 07/01/2023(UTC), dlp6666 on 07/01/2023(UTC), William P on 09/01/2023(UTC)
SF100
Posted: 07 January 2023 11:51:43(UTC)
#731

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Phil 2;252888 wrote:
β€œIs 10yrs a long enough duration for RCP, or should we be thinking much longer?”

Personally speaking I’m thinking of a duration of approx 1-2 weeks. I think a fair few of us are just trading this around its volatile discount which keeps offering ostensibly easy short term returns. The Telegraph might have just made this easier this week?

Clearly, and I have no beef with that
Would it myself probably, if didn't work full time

What I meant was, doesn't RCP have eyes on generational type changes, in particular, the rise of emerging markets, changes in world order, etc yada yada - choose RCP for your great grand children, perhaps...

It's unlikely that sweat shops & drug cartels in ex colonies etc will be affected by ESG investors (tongue in cheek)
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2 users thanked SF100 for this post.
Phil 2 on 07/01/2023(UTC), William P on 09/01/2023(UTC)
Alfa 2
Posted: 07 January 2023 11:52:07(UTC)
#724

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Aminatidi;252883 wrote:
Johan De Silva;252881 wrote:
Aminatidi it is absolutely a NAV thing and your are plotting a chart to help support your narrative.

If you are to instead plot a chart looking forward into the future from wide discounts today you would see the gearing like impact of discount narrowing that more than covers the fee. But you know all this but rightly pointing out the flipside or for a buy and hold forever investor.


If what you suggest will happen does happen then sure.

I genuinely never know whether I'd feel comfortable looking at a NAV on Trustnet whilst my actual investment value in HL or wherever was down 30%.

Honestly I'm not intentionally myopic about it like I said people have to do what works for them and I'm sure plenty of people feel the same about plenty of other investments.

In spite of the above I spent a while on Thursday wondering whether to have a nibble and still haven't entirely decided.

It's almost like once you see the fee it's hard to unsee it and overlook it.

Very conflicting πŸ˜‘



Personally, absolutely agree with you. Perhaps my thoughts will help you.

This is a personal opinion and others may differ πŸ˜€

Simply put, I think:

- it has very high fees - for whatever reasons that have already been discussed at length elsewhere.

- there are lots of investments that offer better value and have as good or better track records that cover similar investment areas

- its popularity is partly carried on the back of the Rothschild name and its complex structure which seems to cover all eventualities but puts me off as it is too opaque.

- it could well be a good buy at times, such as recently, if you are looking to play the discount game.

Good luck with your investing.
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4 users thanked Alfa 2 for this post.
SF100 on 07/01/2023(UTC), Jesse M on 07/01/2023(UTC), Phil 2 on 07/01/2023(UTC), William P on 09/01/2023(UTC)
Thrugelmir
Posted: 07 January 2023 12:26:00(UTC)
#727

Joined: 01/06/2012(UTC)
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SF100;252885 wrote:

Let's not overcomplicated things - we have seen over many threads what happens after writing screeds of waffle justification only to end up dissatisfied - yes it seemingly has high fees


Where comfort can be drawn though in this instance is that as the "Family" have skin in the game. There's a vested interest. Being on the inside as Directors as well being shareholders. They've complete transparency over the entire operation of the company. Which is why the Company is well regarded by external parties. More reassuring than a pure PE\VC play where the management can set themselves to be well rewarded if their punts pay off, and if they don't. They'll soon find another job.
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7 users thanked Thrugelmir for this post.
Guest on 07/01/2023(UTC), Sheerman on 07/01/2023(UTC), SF100 on 07/01/2023(UTC), Alfa 2 on 07/01/2023(UTC), Robin on 07/01/2023(UTC), dlp6666 on 07/01/2023(UTC), William P on 09/01/2023(UTC)
Pre Ka
Posted: 07 January 2023 12:50:23(UTC)
#732

Joined: 07/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 241
has any one read the article on RCP by john stepek in bloomberg.com?
nothing really new, did try and copy and paste but my computer did not like..
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Alfa 2
Posted: 07 January 2023 12:53:04(UTC)
#728

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Thrugelmir;252892 wrote:
SF100;252885 wrote:

Let's not overcomplicated things - we have seen over many threads what happens after writing screeds of waffle justification only to end up dissatisfied - yes it seemingly has high fees


Where comfort can be drawn though in this instance is that as the "Family" have skin in the game. There's a vested interest. Being on the inside as Directors as well being shareholders. They've complete transparency over the entire operation of the company. Which is why the Company is well regarded by external parties. More reassuring than a pure PE\VC play where the management can set themselves to be well rewarded if their punts pay off, and if they don't. They'll soon find another job.



I agree that, in that respect, comfort can be drawn but the other side of the coin wherever a family has a very large interest and influence in a trust then I am not sure how I can ensure their interests align with mine.
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philip gosling
Posted: 07 January 2023 12:53:57(UTC)
#733

Joined: 06/01/2013(UTC)
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Low cost global Funds/ETFS beat RIt over 6 months 1 year, 5 years and even 10 years and by a huge margin (Fidelity chart and compare ).


.....and that is just looking at Vanguard's VWRL never mind some of the other index funds - so perhaps the huge charges make a huge difference
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5 users thanked philip gosling for this post.
Alfa 2 on 07/01/2023(UTC), Keith Cobby on 07/01/2023(UTC), Guest on 07/01/2023(UTC), dlp6666 on 07/01/2023(UTC), Dexi on 08/01/2023(UTC)
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