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Captain Slugwash
Posted: 01 August 2022 14:14:19(UTC)
#40

Joined: 19/07/2017(UTC)
Posts: 466
AJW;232857 wrote:
I think it is worth exploring, if it works it could be a huge benefit and produce a happier society. If it doesn't work then that would be evident in trials.


I believe it was trialled in Finland and discontinued.
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Nigel Harris
Posted: 01 August 2022 14:36:36(UTC)
#39

Joined: 27/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 102
AJW;232857 wrote:
I think it is worth exploring, if it works it could be a huge benefit and produce a happier society. If it doesn't work then that would be evident in trials.


I am happier when I have to work harder to earn more.

Is this one of the seven deadly sins of pride, or enabling a sense of self-worth and personal value?

But I am not society, and I think people are different.
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Robert D
Posted: 01 August 2022 14:47:50(UTC)
#54

Joined: 06/11/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,489
Bulldog Drummond;232862 wrote:

Eh. we were happier then. I used to dream of living in a corridor. It seems to me that the more money is given to the idle and feckless the more they complain that they want yet more.
https://youtu.be/VKHFZBUTA4k



I agree - the idle and feckless capitalist class. Cornered all the wealth over the past 30 years yet it's never enough.
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Bulldog Drummond
Posted: 01 August 2022 14:52:51(UTC)
#56

Joined: 03/10/2017(UTC)
Posts: 6,253

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Robert D;232871 wrote:


I agree - the idle and feckless capitalist class. Cornered all the wealth over the past 30 years yet it's never enough.

One can never be too rich or too thin. But it's the moderately well off working middle classes who pay for the unemployable layabouts (two kids, no father, council house) and the incompetent state sector.
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stephen_s on 01/08/2022(UTC), Nigel Harris on 01/08/2022(UTC)
AJW
Posted: 01 August 2022 15:00:25(UTC)
#41

Joined: 15/06/2017(UTC)
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Captain Slugwash;232863 wrote:
AJW;232857 wrote:
I think it is worth exploring, if it works it could be a huge benefit and produce a happier society. If it doesn't work then that would be evident in trials.


I believe it was trialled in Finland and discontinued.


Perhaps it's a no-go then.

Nigel Harris;232868 wrote:

I am happier when I have to work harder to earn more.

Is this one of the seven deadly sins of pride, or enabling a sense of self-worth and personal value?

But I am not society, and I think people are different.


Yes I also set myself high standards and agree there's probably a smidgen of pride behind it. My interest in UBI is due to my belief that:
1) With the societal and technological advances of today, we have the capability to keep the poorest out of poverty and the wealthy can still remain wealthy.
2) We shattered the "can't be done" mentality during covid. Hybrid working was blasphemy in 2019, today is has been found by many to be a better way of doing things. Working life and the economy are so entrenched in 20th Century norms, it is worth looking at modern ways of operating. Perhaps UBI reduces the burden on some public services, perhaps there are net gains in motivation and productivity. Who knows until we try it?
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Easyrider on 01/08/2022(UTC)
andy mac
Posted: 01 August 2022 15:21:17(UTC)
#50

Joined: 12/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,264
Bulldog Drummond;232860 wrote:
AJW;232857 wrote:
I think it is worth exploring, if it works it could be a huge benefit and produce a happier society. If it doesn't work then that would be evident in trials.

I currently pay 45% income tax, plus NICs, plus VAT at 20%, extra on alcohol and tobacco and insurance/flight taxes, plus Council Tax, and another shedload when I die. At least I don't have to buy petrol. I have not noticed that my paying 6 figures a year has contributed to a happier society. If anything people seem to be becoming more whiny and unhappy.


There was me thinking that you were too old to pay NICs BD
You cannot take it with you be happy and give it away now
I assume you are happy filling a job that a younger person could do haha
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Bulldog Drummond
Posted: 01 August 2022 15:22:57(UTC)
#42

Joined: 03/10/2017(UTC)
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AJW;232876 wrote:

1) With the societal and technological advances of today, we have the capability to keep the poorest out of poverty and the wealthy can still remain wealthy.

The definition of poverty means that it will always remain constant, as it is defined by comparison to average income.
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4 users thanked Bulldog Drummond for this post.
bédé on 01/08/2022(UTC), ANDREW FOSTER on 01/08/2022(UTC), Keith Cobby on 01/08/2022(UTC), Captain Slugwash on 01/08/2022(UTC)
Bulldog Drummond
Posted: 01 August 2022 15:26:22(UTC)
#51

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andy mac;232880 wrote:

I assume you are happy filling a job that a younger person could do haha

One of my great pleasures in life is knowing that the ambitious little buggers know full well that I am paid far more than they are and that they have to do all the work. Their day will come. Generals aren't expected to go out in the trenches to shoot a rifle.
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Tim D on 01/08/2022(UTC), ANDREW FOSTER on 01/08/2022(UTC)
AJW
Posted: 01 August 2022 15:28:57(UTC)
#43

Joined: 15/06/2017(UTC)
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Bulldog Drummond;232881 wrote:
AJW;232876 wrote:

1) With the societal and technological advances of today, we have the capability to keep the poorest out of poverty and the wealthy can still remain wealthy.

The definition of poverty means that it will always remain constant, as it is defined by comparison to average income.


I don't dispute that. My post meant being able to pay basic bills, purchase food and rent, while saving enough so the person isn't pushed into debt by an unexpected cost. Say, £500.
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Bulldog Drummond
Posted: 01 August 2022 15:32:57(UTC)
#44

Joined: 03/10/2017(UTC)
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AJW;232884 wrote:


I don't dispute that. My post meant being able to pay basic bills, purchase food and rent, while saving enough so the person isn't pushed into debt by an unexpected cost. Say, £500.

I won't argue with that. I have posted before that people on this forum are extraordinarily lucky. Most people in the UK are very close to financial disaster. Everybody knows that the fight was fixed, the poor stay poor, the rich get rich, everybody wants a box of chocolates... Everybody knows....

https://youtu.be/Lin-a2lTelg
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Easyrider on 01/08/2022(UTC)
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