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RIT capital partners
Big boy
Posted: 23 August 2024 15:41:26(UTC)

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MR GL

I believe a truly independent Board would have dealt with the discount by now...
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Tim D on 23/08/2024(UTC)
Thrugelmir
Posted: 23 August 2024 16:14:38(UTC)

Joined: 01/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5,317

Unsure how. Reducing the issued share capital of the company has it's considerable challenges.
ravedeath
Posted: 23 August 2024 16:17:55(UTC)

Joined: 10/01/2024(UTC)
Posts: 229

bill xxxx;316720 wrote:
RCP’s discount has widened enormously vs the others. I think that using their NAV would show a rather different picture



Great, now where can I sell at NAV please?
Tug Boat
Posted: 23 August 2024 16:19:42(UTC)

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The charges are the issue for me.

I think BB is correct, it is run for the family. Look where the charges go.

It is uninvestable. Is that a word?

But, although me crystal ball is being serviced, you don’t need one for this trust, as it scams off far too much in charges.
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Big boy on 23/08/2024(UTC)
L.P.
Posted: 23 August 2024 18:19:43(UTC)

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It never ceases to amaze me about the amount of crap being posted on these boards at times regarding certain investments.

I am pretty damn sure that the family members of trusts like RIT, CLDN etc don’t give two hoots about a bit of short term underperformance (if that is what it is) in the family trust. All they are bothered about is making sure that, over the long term (generations), their wealth is managed and preserved.

If these investments are not for you then that’s cool, but for goodness sake, stop wasting your bloody time, we already know that you are investing geniuses and can generate so much wealth elsewhere that you will make the Rothschilds feel like paupers,
8 users thanked L.P. for this post.
Big boy on 23/08/2024(UTC), TJL on 23/08/2024(UTC), bill xxxx on 23/08/2024(UTC), Mr GL on 24/08/2024(UTC), Tim D on 24/08/2024(UTC), Rob B on 24/08/2024(UTC), The Penguin on 24/08/2024(UTC), Rocca Billy on 27/08/2024(UTC)
Rob B
Posted: 23 August 2024 18:58:20(UTC)

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L.P.;316738 wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me about the amount of crap being posted on these boards at times regarding certain investments.

I am pretty damn sure that the family members of trusts like RIT, CLDN etc don’t give two hoots about a bit of short term underperformance (if that is what it is) in the family trust. All they are bothered about is making sure that, over the long term (generations), their wealth is managed and preserved.

If these investments are not for you then that’s cool, but for goodness sake, stop wasting your bloody time, we already know that you are investing geniuses and can generate so much wealth elsewhere that you will make the Rothschilds feel like paupers,

All very fair points, L.P.

I try to look at things clinically and objectively rather than a commentary on personal investing stye, preference or holding. RIT's performance over the last 10 years surely has not been good enough when you consider such a heavy weighting to risk on assets and in a long bull market too.

Whilst 10 years might not be a long time for the Rothschilds and their multi-generational timeframe, it's nigh on 25% of a working career during accumulation and 15% of an average adult lifetime.

Whilst the family drive the DeLorean at 88mph, retail investors appear to be paying for a Mercedes but find themselves driving a Trabant in the hope of a significant upgrade.

Two big questions:

(i) If there's a significant downturn and RIT's performance has been between CGT and LS40 for a decade, should investors fear the worst? Or will some magic come to the fore?

(ii) I'm interested in Mr GL's view on why it's such a core holding for him. Is it the discount? Or Is it a quality run trust simply going through bad times?


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AlanT on 23/08/2024(UTC)
Big boy
Posted: 23 August 2024 19:07:57(UTC)

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Rob B;316739 wrote:
L.P.;316738 wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me about the amount of crap being posted on these boards at times regarding certain investments.

I am pretty damn sure that the family members of trusts like RIT, CLDN etc don’t give two hoots about a bit of short term underperformance (if that is what it is) in the family trust. All they are bothered about is making sure that, over the long term (generations), their wealth is managed and preserved.

If these investments are not for you then that’s cool, but for goodness sake, stop wasting your bloody time, we already know that you are investing geniuses and can generate so much wealth elsewhere that you will make the Rothschilds feel like paupers,

All very fair points, L.P.

I try to look at things clinically and objectively rather than a commentary on personal investing stye, preference or holding. RIT's performance over the last 10 years surely has not been good enough when you consider such a heavy weighting to risk on assets and in a long bull market too.

Whilst 10 years might not be a long time for the Rothschilds and their multi-generational timeframe, it's nigh on 25% of a working career during accumulation and 15% of an average adult lifetime.

Whilst the family drive the DeLorean at 88mph, retail investors appear to be paying for a Mercedes but find themselves driving a Trabant in the hope of a significant upgrade.

Two big questions:

(i) If there's a significant downturn and RIT's performance has been between CGT and LS40 for a decade, should investors fear the worst? Or will some magic come to the fore?

(ii) I'm interested in Mr GL's view on why it's such a core holding for him. Is it the discount? Or Is it a quality run trust simply going through bad times?




When referring to 10 year performance can we look at NAV performance and SP performance. NAV is down to Manager whereas discounts/premiums are down to Board.
ben ski
Posted: 23 August 2024 21:21:26(UTC)

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Rob B;316739 wrote:
L.P.;316738 wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me about the amount of crap being posted on these boards at times regarding certain investments.

I am pretty damn sure that the family members of trusts like RIT, CLDN etc don’t give two hoots about a bit of short term underperformance (if that is what it is) in the family trust. All they are bothered about is making sure that, over the long term (generations), their wealth is managed and preserved.

If these investments are not for you then that’s cool, but for goodness sake, stop wasting your bloody time, we already know that you are investing geniuses and can generate so much wealth elsewhere that you will make the Rothschilds feel like paupers,

All very fair points, L.P.

I try to look at things clinically and objectively rather than a commentary on personal investing stye, preference or holding. RIT's performance over the last 10 years surely has not been good enough when you consider such a heavy weighting to risk on assets and in a long bull market too.

Whilst 10 years might not be a long time for the Rothschilds and their multi-generational timeframe, it's nigh on 25% of a working career during accumulation and 15% of an average adult lifetime.

Whilst the family drive the DeLorean at 88mph, retail investors appear to be paying for a Mercedes but find themselves driving a Trabant in the hope of a significant upgrade.

Two big questions:

(i) If there's a significant downturn and RIT's performance has been between CGT and LS40 for a decade, should investors fear the worst? Or will some magic come to the fore?

(ii) I'm interested in Mr GL's view on why it's such a core holding for him. Is it the discount? Or Is it a quality run trust simply going through bad times?


NAV's not been bad over 10 years, gone from about 1,400 to 2,500, plus dividends. A bit off their 10.5% long-term annual return – but it has meaningfully diversified a market-weighted portfolio. They tilt quite a bit to value and Asia opportunities – which are things that tend to play out over longer periods.

The problem with something like 10 year performance is you wind up chasing very narrow parts of the market. Recent market performance has been historically narrow. So the decision of whether to go all-in on what's done well, or go totally the other way, is a headache and a coin toss. So it would be a risk to follow that logic into the next thing. It's why the retail crowd tends to be chronically behind the curve.

I've had a small holding in RCP forever, and at a 30% discount, it should certainly be more attractive than it was a few years back, when Aminatidi wanted to buy it on a 10% premium. But costs are a factor. If the easy money's not there in private equity growth, and competition's tighter between hedge funds, those costs become a drag – 10 years of 2.3% fees compound to something like 30%. That's your discount eaten up. You are reliant on those funds delivering on their costs.


8 users thanked ben ski for this post.
Peter59 on 23/08/2024(UTC), Auric on 23/08/2024(UTC), Guest on 24/08/2024(UTC), stephen_s on 24/08/2024(UTC), Tim D on 24/08/2024(UTC), Mr GL on 24/08/2024(UTC), Guest on 24/08/2024(UTC), Rocca Billy on 27/08/2024(UTC)
Mr GL
Posted: 24 August 2024 08:12:57(UTC)

Joined: 18/10/2020(UTC)
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ben ski;316750 wrote:
Rob B;316739 wrote:
L.P.;316738 wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me about the amount of crap being posted on these boards at times regarding certain investments.

I am pretty damn sure that the family members of trusts like RIT, CLDN etc don’t give two hoots about a bit of short term underperformance (if that is what it is) in the family trust. All they are bothered about is making sure that, over the long term (generations), their wealth is managed and preserved.

If these investments are not for you then that’s cool, but for goodness sake, stop wasting your bloody time, we already know that you are investing geniuses and can generate so much wealth elsewhere that you will make the Rothschilds feel like paupers,

All very fair points, L.P.

I try to look at things clinically and objectively rather than a commentary on personal investing stye, preference or holding. RIT's performance over the last 10 years surely has not been good enough when you consider such a heavy weighting to risk on assets and in a long bull market too.

Whilst 10 years might not be a long time for the Rothschilds and their multi-generational timeframe, it's nigh on 25% of a working career during accumulation and 15% of an average adult lifetime.

Whilst the family drive the DeLorean at 88mph, retail investors appear to be paying for a Mercedes but find themselves driving a Trabant in the hope of a significant upgrade.

Two big questions:

(i) If there's a significant downturn and RIT's performance has been between CGT and LS40 for a decade, should investors fear the worst? Or will some magic come to the fore?

(ii) I'm interested in Mr GL's view on why it's such a core holding for him. Is it the discount? Or Is it a quality run trust simply going through bad times?


NAV's not been bad over 10 years, gone from about 1,400 to 2,500, plus dividends. A bit off their 10.5% long-term annual return – but it has meaningfully diversified a market-weighted portfolio. They tilt quite a bit to value and Asia opportunities – which are things that tend to play out over longer periods.

The problem with something like 10 year performance is you wind up chasing very narrow parts of the market. Recent market performance has been historically narrow. So the decision of whether to go all-in on what's done well, or go totally the other way, is a headache and a coin toss. So it would be a risk to follow that logic into the next thing. It's why the retail crowd tends to be chronically behind the curve.

I've had a small holding in RCP forever, and at a 30% discount, it should certainly be more attractive than it was a few years back, when Aminatidi wanted to buy it on a 10% premium. But costs are a factor. If the easy money's not there in private equity growth, and competition's tighter between hedge funds, those costs become a drag – 10 years of 2.3% fees compound to something like 30%. That's your discount eaten up. You are reliant on those funds delivering on their costs.




The NAV TR performance is net of all costs and should be used to compare ‘performance’ of the managers. The share price is determined in part by the NAV and in part by the discount which is in turn affected by fear/greed - investor psychology / flows. I think the SP is cheap when looking at the NAV performance and when considering its ‘listed equity risk’ and its private equity risk and adding on their risk management overlays. I don’t want to be 100% long equity world index etc risk after a few years of strong index performance driven by a narrow range of next best thing AI frenzy. Value, diversified and discount. In 2019 I was very not-invested in outright long equity risk and my patience (and short term underperformance) was rewarded in March of 2020. Feels like a good time to have a load of non listed equity risk.

End of 2019 RCP was at a 5-10% premium now it is at a 28% (?) discount. I didn’t own any in 2019. I do now.


EIDT**** I was intrigued by Lodoski's referencing Amin... and a quick search found this interaction... https://moneyforums.city...Analysis.aspx#post97037

28th Nov 2019....

King Lodos;97058 wrote:
Aminatidi;97037 wrote:
RIT Capital Partners on nearly a 12% premium.

What justifies that?


I'd say it's probably demand among retail investors for an endowment/institutional-style portfolio – and no one really providing anything comparable.

It always *could* be that some of the private equity assets are undervalued, and traders are correctly identifying the proper value of the fund .. But instinct tells me that might be slightly less likely (given how optimistically PE tends to be valued).

The kind of funds RCP holds are mostly inaccessible to retail investors .. They can be high fee, and much less liquid than retail funds, and because they're designed for institutional investors, they may deviate a lot more from benchmarks .. Very much the antithesis of passive investing wisdom – but these funds can prove that there are different ways to do things, and can behave very differently from the kind of things most investors are limited to
8 users thanked Mr GL for this post.
Tim D on 24/08/2024(UTC), Sheerman on 24/08/2024(UTC), bill xxxx on 24/08/2024(UTC), Rob B on 24/08/2024(UTC), Taltunes on 24/08/2024(UTC), mdss68 on 24/08/2024(UTC), Steve U on 24/08/2024(UTC), AlanT on 24/08/2024(UTC)
Big boy
Posted: 24 August 2024 09:38:53(UTC)

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
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Over many decades we have seen massive swings in discounts/premiums as many investors use past performance.

Understanding why these swings occur can be very beneficial to us all as investors.

We have seen these swings recently happening with SMT,WPCT,EWI,RCP and CGT and many more.

IMO unless we see major M&A RCP could go the way of MNH,NSI,HANSA,OCN,CGI and many others. (large discounts)

I learnt many years ago that past performance, top down, macro/mini economics as well as pages of Reports etc. caused Investors to swing from undervalued to overvalued and back again.

With knowledge and skill I discovered how we could take advantage of these trends and was able to manage top performing Funds in many areas.....
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MartynC on 25/08/2024(UTC)
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