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A grown-up, dispassionate assessment of Brexit
You have to change your life
Posted: 15 November 2024 15:31:06(UTC)

Joined: 17/11/2021(UTC)
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Thrugelmir;325817 wrote:


GDP isn't a measurement of wealth. Ultimately it's where the profits flow that really matters.

To become wealthier the UK has to become more productive. Invest more rather than leverage up on debt selling houses to each other at ever rising prices.


It is one measure, Thrugelmir, and an important one.


However you measure it, no net benefit appears from turning your back on your biggest trading partner.

I mean, how has that worked out for you in your personal life?


1 user thanked You have to change your life for this post.
Guest on 15/11/2024(UTC)
Thrugelmir
Posted: 15 November 2024 19:58:42(UTC)

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You have to change your life;325818 wrote:
Thrugelmir;325817 wrote:


GDP isn't a measurement of wealth. Ultimately it's where the profits flow that really matters.

To become wealthier the UK has to become more productive. Invest more rather than leverage up on debt selling houses to each other at ever rising prices.


It is one measure, Thrugelmir, and an important one.


However you measure it, no net benefit appears from turning your back on your biggest trading partner.

I mean, how has that worked out for you in your personal life?




The USA is the UK's largest single trading partner. Larger than France and Germany combined. Being outside the EU may be a major plus if there's a trade war spate once Trump gets his policies rolling next year. USA first is what the electorate voted for. I doubt that he is going to disappoint.
3 users thanked Thrugelmir for this post.
Jay P on 15/11/2024(UTC), Robin B on 15/11/2024(UTC), Keith Cobby on 16/11/2024(UTC)
Robin B
Posted: 15 November 2024 20:44:34(UTC)

Joined: 01/04/2024(UTC)
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You have to change your life;325803 wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr5m7mp96l8o

UK must rebuild post-Brexit relations with EU, says Bank boss



Mr Bailey said the changed relationship with the EU has "weighed" on the economy.

That's diplomatic code for "made you poorer."

Can't "weigh" it up.

Who knew that turning your back on your biggest market would do that?


What Bailey has claimed is completely unproveable. For him to suggest otherwise makes him either an idiot or a liar. It is as simple as that.

Let's use our brains instead of copying what others say...

How could the economic effects of leaving the EU be isolated from all the other factors at work? Like, the covid response..? Like having mountains of legislation and a bloated, interfering state that kills productivity..? Like having the highest tax burden since the war..? Like having the highest energy prices in the developed world thanks to the green energy lunacy..? And for that matter, having a dreadful central bank headed up by that fat plonker..? To name a few.

Pray tell, what precisely has the effect of leaving the EU been in amongst all that? Is there a number of some sort?

Why have numerous EU economies been performing even worse than the UK?

Our balance of trade with the EU has improved since we left. So how can we be worse off out of it, bearing in mind we don't pay the fees either?

Going back in would kill our tech sector, which is one of the things we still have global relevance in and that makes us money.

Let's use our freedom to conclude a great trade deal with the US, which is our biggest trade partner. In the EU, this would take the French bureaucrats about 30 years to figure out.

Bailey has been useless and is just saying what his bosses want him to. His bosses want us back in. They want us back in because, as with everything else, they are wrong. I haven't seen a single shred of evidence yet that this government actually wants to make life better and more prosperous for the average British citizen. Their desire to rejoin is actually confirmation of one thing: it is a terrible idea.
3 users thanked Robin B for this post.
ANDREW FOSTER on 15/11/2024(UTC), Jay P on 18/11/2024(UTC), Wave Action on 18/11/2024(UTC)
ANDREW FOSTER
Posted: 15 November 2024 21:18:28(UTC)

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You have to change your life;325818 wrote:
Thrugelmir;325817 wrote:


GDP isn't a measurement of wealth. Ultimately it's where the profits flow that really matters.

To become wealthier the UK has to become more productive. Invest more rather than leverage up on debt selling houses to each other at ever rising prices.


It is one measure, Thrugelmir, and an important one.


However you measure it, no net benefit appears from turning your back on your biggest trading partner.

I mean, how has that worked out for you in your personal life?




iT wAsn't abOUt teH m0ney... 🙄🤷

1 user thanked ANDREW FOSTER for this post.
Jay P on 15/11/2024(UTC)
ANDREW FOSTER
Posted: 15 November 2024 21:22:46(UTC)

Joined: 23/07/2019(UTC)
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Robert D;325809 wrote:
You have to change your life;325803 wrote:


Who knew that turning your back on your biggest market would do that?



Bleedin' obvious. But the climate change deniers still won't have it.


Having a smaller, poorer economy is less consumptive.


So it appears that being more greener is a benefit of Brexit, if what the remainers say about the economy is true.

Remainers can't even get the hypocrisy of wanting GDP growth AND Net Zero at the same time 🤣


Every cloud, eh ?
2 users thanked ANDREW FOSTER for this post.
Robin B on 15/11/2024(UTC), Jay P on 16/11/2024(UTC)
Adelaide One
Posted: 16 November 2024 13:34:35(UTC)

Joined: 04/06/2017(UTC)
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Robin B;325837 wrote:
You have to change your life;325803 wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr5m7mp96l8o

UK must rebuild post-Brexit relations with EU, says Bank boss



Mr Bailey said the changed relationship with the EU has "weighed" on the economy.

That's diplomatic code for "made you poorer."

Can't "weigh" it up.

Who knew that turning your back on your biggest market would do that?


What Bailey has claimed is completely unproveable. For him to suggest otherwise makes him either an idiot or a liar. It is as simple as that.

Let's use our brains instead of copying what others say...

How could the economic effects of leaving the EU be isolated from all the other factors at work? Like, the covid response..? Like having mountains of legislation and a bloated, interfering state that kills productivity..? Like having the highest tax burden since the war..? Like having the highest energy prices in the developed world thanks to the green energy lunacy..? And for that matter, having a dreadful central bank headed up by that fat plonker..? To name a few.

Pray tell, what precisely has the effect of leaving the EU been in amongst all that? Is there a number of some sort?

Why have numerous EU economies been performing even worse than the UK?

Our balance of trade with the EU has improved since we left. So how can we be worse off out of it, bearing in mind we don't pay the fees either?

Going back in would kill our tech sector, which is one of the things we still have global relevance in and that makes us money.

Let's use our freedom to conclude a great trade deal with the US, which is our biggest trade partner. In the EU, this would take the French bureaucrats about 30 years to figure out.

Bailey has been useless and is just saying what his bosses want him to. His bosses want us back in. They want us back in because, as with everything else, they are wrong. I haven't seen a single shred of evidence yet that this government actually wants to make life better and more prosperous for the average British citizen. Their desire to rejoin is actually confirmation of one thing: it is a terrible idea.



I am seeing a lot of anger here RobinB! And a wide ranging series of points which might be unfairly directed at the Governor of the BoE (who I understood was a brexit suipporter) and the EU. So for balance ....

1. Mr Bailey is using government figures which says the GDP is 4% lower due to Brexit. They use a counterfactual model to model the difference, and that takes into account covid response. It's consistent with other figures and empirical reporting.

That 4% is equivalent to a tax income of about £80bn, plenty to fill the 22bn black hole / build hospitals / HS2 / not need to raise NI. We could even afford a Liz Truss budget with that sort of income.

2. Mountains of legistation. They've had 4 years since Brexit to get rid of any they don't like, and seemed unable to do so.

3. Having the highest tax burden. How is that affected by the EU? We have been out for 4 years

4. Energy. Our energy price is determined by the price of gas.

5. I would agree, other economies do seem to be doing worst. Think how much better we would be if we were in the EU.

5. Balance of trade. 80-85% of our economy is services and not trade

6. No one but you is talking about re-joining. Something like "closer ties" were the words used. And if ther eis a business case for it, why not?

7. What evidence do you have about re-joining would kill our tech sector?

8. I understood Mr Bailey was selected out of a smaller pool of candidates because the BOE governor needed to be a brexiteer. So you might have yourself to blame there if you feel he isn't the best candidate, keen to please his bosses [I thought he was the boss], or the other insults you have for him, RobinB (sorry if that makes you angry as well)
5 users thanked Adelaide One for this post.
martin turner on 16/11/2024(UTC), Guest on 16/11/2024(UTC), Sheerman on 16/11/2024(UTC), Newbie on 16/11/2024(UTC), Guest on 18/11/2024(UTC)
You have to change your life
Posted: 16 November 2024 14:01:52(UTC)

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Bring back mark Carney imho ..

stephen_s
Posted: 16 November 2024 16:55:13(UTC)

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UK must pick between US economic model or EU’s ‘socialism’, says Trump adviser - The Guardian

Quote:
A top adviser to the US president-elect, Donald Trump, has said the UK should align itself with the American “free enterprise” economic model instead of the “more socialist” European system, as speculation mounts over the terms of a potential transatlantic trade deal.

Stephen Moore, a senior economic adviser to Trump, said if the UK moved towards the US model of “economic freedom” there would be more “willingness” by the incoming administration to agree to a trade deal between the two countries.


Time to choose:-

Socialist Europe, 'dying on its arse' and more and more dependent on the USA for its energy.

Germany's coalition collapse brings more pain to its ailing economy - Reuters

or the USA?

Tough decision. :)
1 user thanked stephen_s for this post.
Jay P on 18/11/2024(UTC)
ANDREW FOSTER
Posted: 16 November 2024 17:12:11(UTC)

Joined: 23/07/2019(UTC)
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stephen_s;325904 wrote:
UK must pick between US economic model or EU’s ‘socialism’, says Trump adviser - The Guardian

Quote:
A top adviser to the US president-elect, Donald Trump, has said the UK should align itself with the American “free enterprise” economic model instead of the “more socialist” European system, as speculation mounts over the terms of a potential transatlantic trade deal.

Stephen Moore, a senior economic adviser to Trump, said if the UK moved towards the US model of “economic freedom” there would be more “willingness” by the incoming administration to agree to a trade deal between the two countries.


Time to choose:-

Socialist Europe, 'dying on its arse' and more and more dependent on the USA for its energy.

Germany's coalition collapse brings more pain to its ailing economy - Reuters

or the USA?

Tough decision. :)


Both are crap in their own way.

So I choose neither.

Who says there are only two economic models in the world? Or that we can't develop a new one?


Keith Cobby
Posted: 16 November 2024 17:25:11(UTC)

Joined: 07/03/2012(UTC)
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Problem with Brexit is that the Tories and now Labour are bound to the high tax, high spending, low growth of the European socialist model. There is no chance of moving to the US or Singapore/Asian model because there would now be too many losers who are currently living on benefits. When the Tories came to power in 1979 the first thing they did was remove exchange controls, which told the world we were open for business. The first thing the Tory government should have done after Brexit was to cut corporation tax to 12.5% (to match the lowest, RoI) or even lower. They put it up.
6 users thanked Keith Cobby for this post.
ANDREW FOSTER on 16/11/2024(UTC), stephen_s on 16/11/2024(UTC), Alex Peard on 16/11/2024(UTC), Guest on 16/11/2024(UTC), Robin B on 18/11/2024(UTC), Jay P on 18/11/2024(UTC)
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