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Bonds in a growth portfolio
boobo zonga
Posted: 01 January 2025 14:03:50(UTC)
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Is there a place for bonds in a growth portfolio?
I don’t need any investment income for about 10 years,but i added some bonds to my portfolio as a stabilizer but it seems to be a bad move. I chose M&G Global macro bond(acc) as it was recommended on several online investment platforms. It has been rubbish. Over 5 years i’m still down 10 % I also added capital gearing trust and again i’m down 5% over three years. I would have been better putting the money on fix term deposit account or sticking to 100% equities.
Any thoughts/opinions
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AlanT on 02/01/2025(UTC)
Thrugelmir
Posted: 01 January 2025 14:28:20(UTC)
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Growth is a term bandied around often without context. Art of good portfolio management is to generate a positive return whatever the weather. Have you considered a multi asset fund ? Managing ones own portfolio comes with pitfalls.
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Hyndford on 01/01/2025(UTC)
Sara G
Posted: 01 January 2025 15:11:49(UTC)
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Looking at the chart, the M&G fund has at least outperformed a global bond tracker (IGLO), but you were unfortunate in that 5 years ago interest rates were at historically low levels, and it was likely that bonds wouldn't do very well from that starting point (interest rate rises cause bond yields to rise, and therefore capital values to fall). All of the standard advice will tell you to avoid market timing, however, and had you steered clear of bonds at that time, that's what you would have been doing. Your original decision was based on a desire to manage volatility in the portfolio over a 10 year period, and presumably in the expectation that if equities fell, the bond element would cushion the effect, and hopefully rise. Given all of that, you decided on a perfectly reasonable asset allocation for your time horizon.

I think what you need to do now is forget past performance and remember your original intentions and risk tolerance. Yes, bonds have done exceptionally badly, and the multi asset fund didn't help matters. But from this point, the picture may look very different. If you were buying your bond allocation today, you might find that it does its job. Now might even be a reasonable time to re-balance in favour of the bond element to restore the original percentages.

NB I would have a look at the costs of the pf. Would you be better off with a passive bond fund going forward? (There is no guarantee that the M&G fund will continue to outperform.) Or you could put everything into a Vanguard Lifestrategy fund (or similar) and then you wouldn't have to worry about re-balancing.
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Guest on 01/01/2025(UTC), boobo zonga on 01/01/2025(UTC), AlanT on 02/01/2025(UTC), markydeedrop on 03/01/2025(UTC), Peter61 on 04/01/2025(UTC), ALAN P on 12/01/2025(UTC)
Dexi
Posted: 01 January 2025 15:24:47(UTC)
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boobo zonga;329849 wrote:
Is there a place for bonds in a growth portfolio?


Not really , although a lot depends on your attitude to risk and investing time horizon , eg . aged 30 and still making regular investments , then no . Aged 90 , then probably yes .
I assume were talking about global aggregate or AAA - AA type " safe " bonds .
Elspeth Beaton
Posted: 01 January 2025 15:48:50(UTC)
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All investors want a partner investment to equities that does the opposite ie goes up in value when equities go down and vice versa
However there appears to be to be no such asset available?
So a compromise is often struck by investors by using bonds in an equity portfolio
Bonds are supposed to reduce risk and volatility in a portfolio
Bonds are supposed to preserve the wealth of the portfolio
Bonds are supposed generate some growth
Most of the time this seems to work but not always -unfortunately
A young investor will probably have few bonds -an older investor with a reasonable amount savings at risk especially if retired will possibly have more
It’s a personal choice for each investor
Investing is a long game and 5 year periods are quite short to assess a portfolios performance
xxd09
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Dexi on 01/01/2025(UTC), boobo zonga on 01/01/2025(UTC), AlanT on 02/01/2025(UTC), bearcub on 02/01/2025(UTC), dlp6666 on 03/01/2025(UTC)
Tug Boat
Posted: 01 January 2025 15:51:30(UTC)
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Bought a couple of bond ETFs a year ago. Inflation was coming down.

Pundits were tipping them. Pundits have a crystal ball which is cloudier than mine, my CB is almost black.

Did okay, paid a reasonable dividend.

Labour won the election, so I sold and was lucky.

Bonds are volatile, folks think they are steady and reliable, but they are not.

Must say I’ve had RL Sterling High Yield for 10 years. No growth, but 7% yielder. That has been fine.

I recently bought TFIF. It hit a low and have used the divi to top up growth equities.

Now all divis sit in cash.
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what me worry? on 01/01/2025(UTC), AlanT on 02/01/2025(UTC), markydeedrop on 03/01/2025(UTC)
what me worry?
Posted: 01 January 2025 16:29:36(UTC)
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Forgive me maybe I'm missing something here. If you just want growth you probably don't want bonds

But I have BIPS, NCYF, ( maybe one or two thers, can't remember at the moment) are they not "baskets" of bonds? They don't have much movement(ie growth) but pay decent divi and seem to have a long and sustainable history.
The divis from those go to fund the (hopefully) growth stocks. So for that reason, in my opinion, they are worth having in the mix.
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AlanT on 02/01/2025(UTC), markydeedrop on 03/01/2025(UTC), Shaun Fletcher on 24/01/2025(UTC)
boobo zonga
Posted: 01 January 2025 17:11:55(UTC)
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It seems to be generally recommended that the closer you get to retirement to hold a higher percentage in bonds than equities.Is this still current thinking? I know its futile to try and time the markets,i think i was just unlucky five years ago and also M&G Macro seems to be one of the worst performers in its sector. Maybe i should look at some bond etfs or lifestrategey. (Am becoming a bigger fan of etf’s generally,rather than rely on star managers limited shelf life).
ben ski
Posted: 01 January 2025 18:06:36(UTC)
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boobo zonga;329873 wrote:
It seems to be generally recommended that the closer you get to retirement to hold a higher percentage in bonds than equities.Is this still current thinking? I know its futile to try and time the markets,i think i was just unlucky five years ago and also M&G Macro seems to be one of the worst performers in its sector. Maybe i should look at some bond etfs or lifestrategey. (Am becoming a bigger fan of etf’s generally,rather than rely on star managers limited shelf life).


You need to go and learn what bonds are and how they work. You're not alone – most here don't have a clue.

Bonds are not things you need to bet on. They're just an agreement. You lend money for a fixed term (2 years, 10 years..), they pay you a set income over this period, then give you your cash back ... So you do need them in a retirement portfolio, because they're the only investments that give you any certainty.

When you put bonds in a fund or ETF, it confuses people, because people focus more on price performance. But really it's just a ladder of fixed term investments. When a quality bond fund falls 50%, it's just become twice as good value. So if you wanted to own it before, you should want to own it twice as much now. If that's not the case: get on Bogleheads and learn about bonds.

8 users thanked ben ski for this post.
Busy doing nothing on 01/01/2025(UTC), Guest on 01/01/2025(UTC), boobo zonga on 01/01/2025(UTC), Thrugelmir on 02/01/2025(UTC), AlanT on 02/01/2025(UTC), Sheerman on 04/01/2025(UTC), Peter61 on 04/01/2025(UTC), ALAN P on 12/01/2025(UTC)
Peanuts
Posted: 01 January 2025 18:30:10(UTC)
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There's a time and a place for (quality) bonds and I think now is that time and place for them in a retirement portfolio. Capital appreciation is the bonus (that might or might not happen) so best to think about yield and concentrate on that. Today we are getting a real yield. I think the other thing is regarding funds and ETFs is people pay too much attention to yields going higher, fund/etf/unit prices going lower, and blame that on the reason to avoid them. But think about it - If yields go higher you are also receiving more yield in your portfolio. How much you dilute your portfolio with them is another matter that is individual to each person...
2 users thanked Peanuts for this post.
Guest on 01/01/2025(UTC), Jay P on 02/01/2025(UTC)
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