Funds Insider - Opening the door to funds

Welcome to the Citywire Funds Insider Forums, where members share investment ideas and discuss everything to do with their money.

You'll need to log in or set up an account to start new discussions or reply to existing ones. See you inside!

Notification

Icon
Error

Pershing Square Holdings (PSH)
Big boy
Posted: 16 January 2025 11:56:33(UTC)

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,676

Thanks: 5661 times
Was thanked: 11110 time(s) in 4250 post(s)
Raj K;331242 wrote:
@ Rookie watch their last 2024 Investor day presentation on their website and there was also a good general interview with Brookefiled CEO Bruce Flatt and the Norges Investment Bank.

https://www.youtube.com/...v=vTd02-0BiOM&t=26s

I'm still trying to understand Brookfield and probably never will in the detail like other single companies. So many diverse earning streams. . Bruce Flatt seems well regarded CEO and by the numbers they provide are still undervalued... and with their view 20% growth p.a in earnings over the next five years.


Doing your DD what is correct SP factoring in “20% growth pa “ and if I went for 21% what would be the figure.. .

As we all know buying the best at the wrong time/sp can be very costly but I am sure you can forcast the future. with some sort of accuracy. Thank you..
1 user thanked Big boy for this post.
Raj K on 16/01/2025(UTC)
Raj K
Posted: 16 January 2025 12:22:03(UTC)

Joined: 22/04/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,818

Thanks: 6460 times
Was thanked: 6651 time(s) in 2090 post(s)
Big boy;331246 wrote:
Raj K;331242 wrote:
@ Rookie watch their last 2024 Investor day presentation on their website and there was also a good general interview with Brookefiled CEO Bruce Flatt and the Norges Investment Bank.

https://www.youtube.com/...v=vTd02-0BiOM&t=26s

I'm still trying to understand Brookfield and probably never will in the detail like other single companies. So many diverse earning streams. . Bruce Flatt seems well regarded CEO and by the numbers they provide are still undervalued... and with their view 20% growth p.a in earnings over the next five years.


Doing your DD what is correct SP factoring in “20% growth pa “ and if I went for 21% what would be the figure.. .

As we all know buying the best at the wrong time/sp can be very costly but I am sure you can forcast the future. with some sort of accuracy. Thank you..



The 20% in earnings growth claim over next five years comes from Brookfield themselves. The also believe their asset value or plan value they say is $84 (hopefully im correct) dollar per share at the last reporting point. I dont understand Brookfield enough to be able to predict their future growth myself....

Your strategy would be to sell Brookfield now becuase its gone up X in the last year.... but that doesnt tell you anything about what is going to happen from here. You may miss out on a lot of upside becuase you refuse to try and understand what you are buying!

Let me turn this around please tell me what refrence points, metrics you would use to guage if its currently over or undervalued? If we dont try and understand the business, if we dont look at projected earnings growth, it we dont look at current earnings, if we ignore the managers ability, what do we look at? A SP oscillating up and down and what we ate for breakfast :). There are more items to consider but i think you understand where i am going.

No one can forecast the future exactly but we can try use our brains to try and understand what the likely outcome for a business might be over the next five, ten , fifteen years.

I would add that as Brookfield is a quality business with a set of diverse income streams , has a capable management team and if one has a long term perspective fretting over starting valuations (although they do appear atttactive even now) may be irrelevant.... ? I bought at an average of $31.60 but i will add more if i believe that it will compound in value over time. It wont worry me if the SP drops, infact that will be an opportunity to add more. Hence why i have been looking at the company closer.
6 users thanked Raj K for this post.
Big boy on 16/01/2025(UTC), Jay P on 16/01/2025(UTC), Helen L on 16/01/2025(UTC), Auric on 18/01/2025(UTC), Johan De Silva on 28/01/2025(UTC), RT7 on 03/02/2025(UTC)
A Sav
Posted: 17 January 2025 08:24:36(UTC)

Joined: 04/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1

Could anyone help me assess the likely impact on the share price of the three changes proposed to PSH's portfolio?
1) The take-over of HHH
2) The removal of FNMA and FMCC from coservatorship
3) The listing of UMG on the US exchange
Many thanks, Andy
Phil 2
Posted: 28 January 2025 09:53:01(UTC)

Joined: 20/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 2,108

Thanks: 9819 times
Was thanked: 4742 time(s) in 1534 post(s)
I have a modest holding in PSH having bought and sold profitably in the past. Here’s some really interesting supposition from the OB re the sizeable holdings in Freddie and Fannie.

https://theoakbloke.subs...nnie-mae-and-freddie-mac
6 users thanked Phil 2 for this post.
Newbie on 28/01/2025(UTC), ravedeath on 28/01/2025(UTC), Guest on 28/01/2025(UTC), Raj K on 28/01/2025(UTC), John Bran on 28/01/2025(UTC), lindsay Morrison2 on 29/01/2025(UTC)
John Bran
Posted: 28 January 2025 12:07:53(UTC)

Joined: 01/09/2017(UTC)
Posts: 2,125

Phil Beat me to it again. Well I don't care. Mine is a better link, even though it's identical!

https://theoakbloke.subs...ue&utm_medium=email
Johan De Silva
Posted: 02 February 2025 22:58:28(UTC)

Joined: 22/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4,414

Thanks: 5918 times
Was thanked: 10142 time(s) in 3362 post(s)
Bull case:

1. Dollar up.
2. Portfolio seems uneffected by Tariffs.
3. What's Bill done about Tariffs? Is being on the inside given PSH the edge to go shorting GM or others? I bet hes done more than Ruffer?


Edit: 4. No shorts reported on the 4th - must be confident on Trumps actual agenda.
2 users thanked Johan De Silva for this post.
Rookie Investor on 02/02/2025(UTC), Auric on 04/02/2025(UTC)
Johan De Silva
Posted: 03 February 2025 16:03:22(UTC)

Joined: 22/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4,414

Thanks: 5918 times
Was thanked: 10142 time(s) in 3362 post(s)
Bear case

Tariffs sorry, I missed that PSH held Canadian Pacific Kansas City Ltd. Not much mind:
https://www.google.com/finance/quote/CP:NYSE

Other holdings holding up OK! Portfolio modelling showing -1.6% down on NAV vs 3% share price.

UMG swung from red to green.
https://www.google.com/finance/quote/UMG:AMS
3 users thanked Johan De Silva for this post.
Sheerman on 03/02/2025(UTC), Phil 2 on 03/02/2025(UTC), Auric on 04/02/2025(UTC)
Johan De Silva
Posted: 07 February 2025 18:00:14(UTC)

Joined: 22/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4,414

Thanks: 5918 times
Was thanked: 10142 time(s) in 3362 post(s)
Bill Ackman’s Pershing Square Builds a $2.3 Billion Stake in Uber
https://www.wsj.com/live...er-MTRbvUTAJRlBq03MrzEH

Impeccable timing as Uber is one of the best performers +10 percent
https://www.google.com/finance/quote/UBER:NYSE

Uber has a P/E of 33 but I presume Ackman is attracted to the cash flows.
5 users thanked Johan De Silva for this post.
Raj K on 07/02/2025(UTC), Pre Ka on 07/02/2025(UTC), Rookie Investor on 07/02/2025(UTC), Auric on 07/02/2025(UTC), Helen L on 08/02/2025(UTC)
Raj K
Posted: 07 February 2025 18:46:59(UTC)

Joined: 22/04/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,818

Thanks: 6460 times
Was thanked: 6651 time(s) in 2090 post(s)
Johan De Silva;333594 wrote:
Bill Ackman’s Pershing Square Builds a $2.3 Billion Stake in Uber
https://www.wsj.com/live...er-MTRbvUTAJRlBq03MrzEH

Impeccable timing as Uber is one of the best performers +10 percent
https://www.google.com/finance/quote/UBER:NYSE

Uber has a P/E of 33 but I presume Ackman is attracted to the cash flows.


Blimey wondering if he sold another position to fund this. Noting on Dataroma yet. Tuseday's annual investor presentation will be interesting!

1 user thanked Raj K for this post.
Rookie Investor on 07/02/2025(UTC)
Rookie Investor
Posted: 07 February 2025 18:51:03(UTC)

Joined: 09/12/2020(UTC)
Posts: 2,081

Thanks: 1341 times
Was thanked: 3627 time(s) in 1413 post(s)
Raj K;333596 wrote:
Johan De Silva;333594 wrote:
Bill Ackman’s Pershing Square Builds a $2.3 Billion Stake in Uber
https://www.wsj.com/live...er-MTRbvUTAJRlBq03MrzEH

Impeccable timing as Uber is one of the best performers +10 percent
https://www.google.com/finance/quote/UBER:NYSE

Uber has a P/E of 33 but I presume Ackman is attracted to the cash flows.


Blimey wondering if he sold another position to fund this. Noting on Dataroma yet. Tuseday's annual investor presentation will be interesting!



Was thinking the same, the position size seems huge given the fund. Maybe he sold some google?

Funnily enough I was thinking of buying Uber when it dipped two days ago after the earnings but did not have the guts! Oh well. I guess I now own it via PSH.

I am not so sure about Uber. It has huge upside IF AV comes about and it becomes an aggregator for all the AV vehicles, so work in collaboration with the AV suppliers like Waymo and Tesla.

But on the other it seems like an app that one can easily just move to another app with no cost, and so not sure what the moat is - when AV becomes mainstream then people can just use the Waymo app or Tesla app etc so Uber becomes cut off from business. Valuation does not look cheap either.
1 user thanked Rookie Investor for this post.
Raj K on 08/02/2025(UTC)
68 Pages«Previous page6061626364Next page»
+ Reply to discussion

Markets

Other markets