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Climate Change - The Agenda
Dan L
Posted: 12 August 2022 12:44:09(UTC)
#80

Joined: 29/04/2018(UTC)
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Bulldog Drummond;234370 wrote:
ANDREW FOSTER;234369 wrote:

Still waiting for the Ice Age that science promised us in the late 70's ...

Yes, I remember that one. Also the holes in the ozone layer that were going to exterminate us.


Not the best example since the world changed to attempt to fix that. We will never know what would have happened otherwise but we know that after removing CFCs from the stuff we use the problem began to go away. Job well done?
3 users thanked Dan L for this post.
ANDREW FOSTER on 12/08/2022(UTC), John Strom IV on 13/08/2022(UTC), Easyrider on 14/08/2022(UTC)
Gary Millar
Posted: 12 August 2022 12:52:17(UTC)
#76

Joined: 30/10/2016(UTC)
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Bulldog Drummond;234370 wrote:
ANDREW FOSTER;234369 wrote:

Still waiting for the Ice Age that science promised us in the late 70's ...

Yes, I remember that one. Also the holes in the ozone layer that were going to exterminate us.


Every country in the world adopted and ratified the Vienna Convention for the Protection of the Ozone Layer. 99% of ozone depleting substances were phased out as the result. The holes in the ozone layer have to a large extent been fixed.

A good example of following the science.
2 users thanked Gary Millar for this post.
Easyrider on 14/08/2022(UTC), Tim D on 14/08/2022(UTC)
Bulldog Drummond
Posted: 12 August 2022 13:04:09(UTC)
#77

Joined: 03/10/2017(UTC)
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Gary Millar;234380 wrote:
Bulldog Drummond;234370 wrote:
ANDREW FOSTER;234369 wrote:

Still waiting for the Ice Age that science promised us in the late 70's ...

Yes, I remember that one. Also the holes in the ozone layer that were going to exterminate us.


Every country in the world adopted and ratified the Vienna Convention for the Protection of the Ozone Layer. 99% of ozone depleting substances were phased out as the result. The holes in the ozone layer have to a large extent been fixed.

A good example of following the science.

A fair point
1 user thanked Bulldog Drummond for this post.
ANDREW FOSTER on 12/08/2022(UTC)
Bulldog Drummond
Posted: 12 August 2022 13:13:05(UTC)
#85

Joined: 03/10/2017(UTC)
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Tug Boat;234376 wrote:
NASA went through a phase of issuing engineering standards. Working for an American company I was asked to evaluate them against ISO and recommend which to follow.

I recommend ISO. My summary also included the question “if these standards did not have a NASA badge would I have been asked to evaluate them?” No was the answer.

They also published papers in the field in which I was involved. I was again asked to evaluate. Utter, academic rubbish.

NASA has been looking for an identity for two decades, since the engineering was subcontracted. My friend who works there Richard Draycott likens NASA to a car company which simply assembles cars from components procured externally.

Sad to see really.

A favourite story of mine (which may or not be true) is that an early astronaut, Colonel Gus Grissom was asked by a radio station interviewer how it felt to go into space. His reply was "How would you feel if you were sitting on top of 20,000 components, all outsourced to the lowest bidder?" He and all his crew were later killed in a launch pad fire caused by bad wiring.
1 user thanked Bulldog Drummond for this post.
Tim D on 13/08/2022(UTC)
bédé
Posted: 12 August 2022 13:26:29(UTC)
#64

Joined: 26/09/2018(UTC)
Posts: 7,895

Easyrider;234341 wrote:
My take - and as you expect it's informed, reasonable and reflective .

Gosh, I didn't expect that.
bédé
Posted: 12 August 2022 13:32:03(UTC)
#73

Joined: 26/09/2018(UTC)
Posts: 7,895

Bulldog Drummond;234368 wrote:
My remaining holdout is blood temperature at 98.6F.

Me too. Almost. I remember it as 98.4ºF. About 37ºCelsius is much less precise.
bédé
Posted: 12 August 2022 13:38:17(UTC)
#83

Joined: 26/09/2018(UTC)
Posts: 7,895

Old Jock;234373 wrote:
"Climate Change Denier" i

Denier? Being a textile man, and a stockings fan (ooh!), I think of stocking transparency. What this has to do with climate, I have no idea.
1 user thanked bédé for this post.
ANDREW FOSTER on 12/08/2022(UTC)
bédé
Posted: 12 August 2022 13:44:54(UTC)
#78

Joined: 26/09/2018(UTC)
Posts: 7,895

Gary Millar;234380 wrote:
Every country in the world adopted and ratified the Vienna Convention for the Protection of the Ozone Layer. 99% of ozone depleting substances were phased out as the result. The holes in the ozone layer have to a large extent been fixed.
A good example of following the science.

I stand to be corrected, but I'm not sure if China is on board. Also there are lots of cowboys still mishandling old fridges and supplying bootleg chloro-fluoro-carbons.
1 user thanked bédé for this post.
Easyrider on 13/08/2022(UTC)
John Strom IV
Posted: 13 August 2022 08:38:50(UTC)
#71

Joined: 18/03/2022(UTC)
Posts: 336

Bulldog Drummond;234365 wrote:
I don't think that anyone is a climate change "denier", which is an odd sort of label, although it is conceivable that some people don't believe that there was ever an Ice Age. It is obvious that the climate has changed since time began, and will continue to do so, with the main driver being the Sun.

But I think that one can reasonably be sceptical about:

The impact of mankind on the climate
The role of CO2
The value of the "green" measures that are being put in place
The data being used to justify claims
The scientific consensus
Models
Whether it makes a blind bit of difference what the UK does
Whether climate change even matters much

NB the "precautionary principle" sounds very reasonable but in practice leads not infrequently to absurd policies.

But Scientists, who ought to know,
Assure us that they must be so ...
Oh! let us never, never doubt
What nobody is sure about!


An excellent post.

I agree with others though, like Dan, that the issue of CFCs and the ozone layer is not a comparable one, since that was a demonstrably concerning problem that was most probably being caused by industry. It is a highly specific and easily measurable chemical reaction with what appears to be an easily observable and proven solution.

Unfortunately, the apparent success in relation to that problem is then used to justify frankly absurd actions in relation to the far more vague, difficult to prove, grossly exaggerated matter of man-made global warming. As one of the posters above says: 'this is a good example of following the science', or words to that effect, which is absolute tripe. There is no such thing as "the science", and there is nothing scientific about "following" such a notion.

On the man-made global warming theory, or hypothesis as it should actually be called (still unproven), it hasn't even been convincingly shown yet that temperature rises follow increases in CO2, rather than the other way round. It is one of the many areas of doubt that got brushed over with the preferred narrative then being hammered by a toxic mix of government funding and other anti-scientific initiatives. Another absolute basic is: how do we measure temperature? Thermometers, obviously. For the most part anyway. How many thermometers are there? Where are they positioned and what is their global coverage? How accurate are they? How would we answer these questions 100 years ago, and 200 years ago? How can we know what average global temperatures looked like 250 years ago, let alone 500 years ago?

This is before we even get into the dodgy modeling that attempts to predict future changes in the parameters, and the repeated massaging of the recorded data to prove the modeling.

This is absolutely fundamental. In the absence of really rock solid data, we are left with more indirect evidence. Ice cores, the geological record, known human history. Temperatures have been higher than they are now in the past, and also colder. Geologists know that sea levels have previously been far higher than they are now, and also much lower during glacial periods. Nothing to do with humans. We know that there was a medieval warm period when wine was produced in England and the warmth permitted a period of prosperity and church building in Europe. Nothing to do with industraliation. We know this warm spell was followed by the mini ice age when there was ice skating on the Thames. Nothing that is happening now is anything new as far as we know. By the way, the recent "record temperature" in England was recorded at a thermometer next to a runway at the busiest airport in the world... don't tell the media though.

This disgraceful, anti-scientific scam bears no relation at all to other areas of scientific inquiry, certainly not the relationship between CFCs and the ozone layer.
bédé
Posted: 13 August 2022 09:12:02(UTC)
#59

Joined: 26/09/2018(UTC)
Posts: 7,895

Easyrider;234367 wrote:
elderly people like me who still think in F, stones and pounds and use a cheque book.

I was taught about the Réaurmur scale. The only time I ever needed it was to read "War and Peace". Although, being Russia, most of the action occurred when the ºR and ºC were near enough to the same.

I like my measues to be logical and also have a human scale. Not often coincidental.

I like inches, feet, furlongs, acres and pints. But also accept centilitres. My own weight I now follow in kg, but babies still come in lbs & oz. Oil in gallons (US gallons) is just plain ridiculous. In Teesside it was alwayse tonnes.

I recently had to call out a plumber. His card reader couldn't get a signal (darkest Surrey). He would not take a cheque. Between us, my wife and I were able to cobble together some cash, which with a small discount he was able to accept provided we didn't tell Check-a-Trade.
1 user thanked bédé for this post.
Easyrider on 13/08/2022(UTC)
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