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Climate Change - The Agenda
John Strom IV
Posted: 12 August 2022 10:38:39(UTC)
#63

Joined: 18/03/2022(UTC)
Posts: 336

Easyrider;234341 wrote:
This forum seems to have quite a few climate-change deniers.


Like who? Got any examples of what they wrote that would justify your denunciation?
John Strom IV
Posted: 12 August 2022 10:44:18(UTC)
#66

Joined: 18/03/2022(UTC)
Posts: 336

Dan L;234348 wrote:
A reasonable starting assumption that anyone should have when considering a debated topic like climate change is that 'I might be wrong' - followed by a question of 'what could happen if I am wrong?'. I find it tends to give a bit of perspective. A healthy bit of self doubt seems alien to some.


Open mindedness definitely. A willingness to think, explain one's reasoning, provide examples, and engage in discussion.

Unfortunately, the debate largely revolves around lazy people calling others "climate deniers" and other creepy labels because the TV told them to.
Bulldog Drummond
Posted: 12 August 2022 11:21:02(UTC)
#70

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I don't think that anyone is a climate change "denier", which is an odd sort of label, although it is conceivable that some people don't believe that there was ever an Ice Age. It is obvious that the climate has changed since time began, and will continue to do so, with the main driver being the Sun.

But I think that one can reasonably be sceptical about:

The impact of mankind on the climate
The role of CO2
The value of the "green" measures that are being put in place
The data being used to justify claims
The scientific consensus
Models
Whether it makes a blind bit of difference what the UK does
Whether climate change even matters much

NB the "precautionary principle" sounds very reasonable but in practice leads not infrequently to absurd policies.

But Scientists, who ought to know,
Assure us that they must be so ...
Oh! let us never, never doubt
What nobody is sure about!
4 users thanked Bulldog Drummond for this post.
ANDREW FOSTER on 12/08/2022(UTC), Dexi on 12/08/2022(UTC), Jimmy Page on 12/08/2022(UTC), John Strom IV on 13/08/2022(UTC)
Easyrider
Posted: 12 August 2022 11:31:03(UTC)
#58

Joined: 09/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 1,951

Tug Boat;234323 wrote:
Why do some of the newspapers still report temperature in F?

27C(99F)

It’s like being in your local ‘Spoons.

Doombar £2.12(£2/2/5)


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Because of elderly people like me who still think in F, stones and pounds and use a cheque book.
Bulldog Drummond
Posted: 12 August 2022 11:37:50(UTC)
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I have noticed that newspapers like to quote F when temperatures are high and C when low - the numbers sound more impressive that way. Like Bede, I grew up with F but now think in C thanks to car, fridge and freezer thermometers, and weather forecasts. My remaining holdout is blood temperature at 98.6F.
1 user thanked Bulldog Drummond for this post.
John Strom IV on 13/08/2022(UTC)
ANDREW FOSTER
Posted: 12 August 2022 11:41:38(UTC)
#74

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Still waiting for the Ice Age that science promised us in the late 70's ...


1 user thanked ANDREW FOSTER for this post.
John Strom IV on 13/08/2022(UTC)
Bulldog Drummond
Posted: 12 August 2022 11:43:45(UTC)
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ANDREW FOSTER;234369 wrote:

Still waiting for the Ice Age that science promised us in the late 70's ...

Yes, I remember that one. Also the holes in the ozone layer that were going to exterminate us.
Old Jock
Posted: 12 August 2022 12:14:26(UTC)
#82

Joined: 04/06/2018(UTC)
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"Climate Change Denier" is often a lazy phrase used to shut down anyone that wants to debate the official narrative (i.e. free speech).

Stuart Kirk (the former Head of Sustainable Investing at HSBC) was NOT a climate change denier, but ended up getting suspended from his job, just for pushing back a tiny bit against all of the rabid hysteria.

Here is his full presentation, where he (IMHO very eloquently) makes the case for responding to climate change by adaptation, rather than spending trillions up-front based on projections. If you don't like clicking on links just go to Youtube and search "FT Moral Money Stuart Kirk".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfNamRmje-s

In fact, if you listen to him carefully, he actually says "I do not doubt the science at all". Evidently this was not enough for the mob though. Why? My guess is too many vested interests (reputations/careers of scientists/journalists, university research budgets, consultants fees for climate metrics, investment management fees, etc) in keeping the current big spending approach going. Also politicians and campaigners love creating a sense of crisis to make them appear virtuous.

Barry Norris at Argonaut also has an interesting piece arguing that we already have enough renewables, and adding more provides nil benefit:
https://blog.argonautcap...wer-has-already-peaked/

In my opinion, continuing to spend £billions on renewables is more than a bit irresponsible until sufficient scale battery technology is developed (if it ever happens at all).
2 users thanked Old Jock for this post.
Dexi on 12/08/2022(UTC), John Strom IV on 13/08/2022(UTC)
ANDREW FOSTER
Posted: 12 August 2022 12:22:07(UTC)
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Bulldog Drummond;234370 wrote:
ANDREW FOSTER;234369 wrote:

Still waiting for the Ice Age that science promised us in the late 70's ...

Yes, I remember that one. Also the holes in the ozone layer that were going to exterminate us.


And I think this is much of the problem.

Older folk remember the warnings from the 1980's. How if we did nothing, climate change would be irreversible by 2000. But like the millennium bug nothing happened. Every few years we are given another "ten year warning". We've heard it so many times... blah, blah, blah.

But life goes on. No islands lost to the sea. No global crop failures. The glaciers are still here. So are the ice caps. Consumption rises and..... nothing much happens.

We are 22 years past the 2000 "irreversible tipping point" now. Meh... another one will be along shortly I guess.

We all know the "crying wolf" stories. And the older generation view it like this. The youngsters, new to the concept, get agitated because they haven't heard it all before. Just like us in the sixth form in the 70's. But in 40 years they will be like us and their children will be claiming the same.


And so the cycle repeats as the "industry" finds new customers for £300 trainers made of old plastic bottles.
Tug Boat
Posted: 12 August 2022 12:26:42(UTC)
#84

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NASA went through a phase of issuing engineering standards. Working for an American company I was asked to evaluate them against ISO and recommend which to follow.

I recommend ISO. My summary also included the question “if these standards did not have a NASA badge would I have been asked to evaluate them?” No was the answer.

They also published papers in the field in which I was involved. I was again asked to evaluate. Utter, academic rubbish.

NASA has been looking for an identity for two decades, since the engineering was subcontracted. My friend who works there Richard Draycott likens NASA to a car company which simply assembles cars from components procured externally.

Sad to see really.
3 users thanked Tug Boat for this post.
ANDREW FOSTER on 12/08/2022(UTC), Jimmy Page on 12/08/2022(UTC), John Strom IV on 13/08/2022(UTC)
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