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The 2025 multi-asset outlook
Rookie Investor
Posted: 25 January 2025 10:54:38(UTC)
#11

Joined: 09/12/2020(UTC)
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Can anyone who has read the article and at least agrees with it somewhat, explain what on earth is this "standard measure of fair value"? And then this so called "adjusted" measure, how it is calculated? Do people actually believe this shit?

I mean this adjusted fair value seems like a cop-out, either it is fair value or it is not, don't adjust for things just because you do not want to look stupid!!! Yeah tech companies has changed quality of earnings, but so what? What kind of analysis is this?

Honestly I do not see why people think these sorts of 0-value added articles should not be criticised, the problem is naive people will read it as gospel and act on it. it scares people off investing without proper thought.

Learn about asset allocation, your risk tolerance, your need to take risk and all that good stuff. But lets not pretend these articles are in any way useful to judge value - they are not.
5 users thanked Rookie Investor for this post.
Wave Action on 25/01/2025(UTC), Newbie on 25/01/2025(UTC), AlanT on 26/01/2025(UTC), Jesse M on 26/01/2025(UTC), Special Kloud on 26/01/2025(UTC)
Big boy
Posted: 25 January 2025 11:02:36(UTC)
#13

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,676

IMO LILO equals “tail end Charlie” who has read every piece of information available.

Most Members tend to be above so no “thanks” for me but am I worried.
Big boy
Posted: 25 January 2025 12:19:41(UTC)
#12

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,676

Rookie Investor;332201 wrote:
Can anyone who has read the article and at least agrees with it somewhat, explain what on earth is this "standard measure of fair value"? And then this so called "adjusted" measure, how it is calculated? Do people actually believe this shit?

I mean this adjusted fair value seems like a cop-out, either it is fair value or it is not, don't adjust for things just because you do not want to look stupid!!! Yeah tech companies has changed quality of earnings, but so what? What kind of analysis is this?

Honestly I do not see why people think these sorts of 0-value added articles should not be criticised, the problem is naive people will read it as gospel and act on it. it scares people off investing without proper thought.

Learn about asset allocation, your risk tolerance, your need to take risk and all that good stuff. But lets not pretend these articles are in any way useful to judge value - they are not.


IMO no one has the ability to tell you what fair value is and also no one I knows has the ability to work out asset allocation/risk tolerance to add value. Remember also you will tend to be behind the curve and therefore tend to underperform..

The marketing departments and FMs etc. will be happy to provide all with there guesses as to the next day to say 10/20 years times. Remember the past is no indication of the future and shares can go down as well as up.

Not sure how you can measure YOUR risk tolerance with out being part of the herd which leads you into fear and greed mode.


Big boy
Posted: 25 January 2025 12:28:29(UTC)
#14

Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,676


Multi-assets

Beware buying a Tracker/Passive that goes down say 20% …this would be 100% your fault whereas buying a Fund which fell say 20% you could blame the FM 100%.

Would this be part of “risk tolerance”.

ps ….for record I have never bought a Tracker/Passive and much prefer leading Global FMs to manage my
money …
2 users thanked Big boy for this post.
Newbie on 25/01/2025(UTC), Jay P on 26/01/2025(UTC)
ben ski
Posted: 26 January 2025 01:20:39(UTC)
#15

Joined: 15/01/2016(UTC)
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I would note we've just had a phase (2022), where valuations mattered – in bonds. I'm skeptical of people who claim to have sold out of bonds just before the crash – only because, if you were looking at yields, you'd have sold out in 2014/15 ... And it didn't matter being 8 years too early, because you'd have done well in almost anything (with rates that low – everything rises).

The problem with doing this with stocks is they have this growth dimension (bonds – very simple – they'd either crash, or just spend 10-20 years yielding nothing). And markets are basically pricing in growth non-stop.

I'd say 95% of the time, markets get this right. The reason Europe's cheaper than US is because Europe's growth is stagnant. In fact, the US should've been more expensive – even going back 10-15 years, when we were all told the US was too expensive ... No, it just had a brighter outlook. Right now, US futures are rising on another round of companies beating estimates ... Conclusion: I'd keep an eye on what you can value (bonds and Investment Trusts). I wouldn't go allocating to 'cheap' regions. I wouldn't get hung up on US vs ex-US – most of these businesses are global, and the US just has better businesses.
2 users thanked ben ski for this post.
Sheerman on 26/01/2025(UTC), Special Kloud on 26/01/2025(UTC)
L.P.
Posted: 26 January 2025 07:07:05(UTC)
#24

Joined: 14/07/2023(UTC)
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Rookie Investor:

You are so angry, what is the matter with you?

Have you leveraged yourself up to the hilt chasing the ‘mags’ to the moon or something?
2 users thanked L.P. for this post.
Guest on 26/01/2025(UTC), Thrugelmir on 26/01/2025(UTC)
JayW
Posted: 26 January 2025 08:01:39(UTC)
#25

Joined: 25/08/2019(UTC)
Posts: 358

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Imagine a global fund that automatically adjusted it's regional stock allocation every time it detected a new article published for retail investors stating that such and such a market was "overvalued". I'm willing to bet my entire portfolio it would underperform a simple global tracker.
2 users thanked JayW for this post.
AlanT on 26/01/2025(UTC), Chalky W on 26/01/2025(UTC)
Wave Action
Posted: 26 January 2025 10:47:25(UTC)
#26

Joined: 30/11/2023(UTC)
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That chart in the OP's link showing some kind of " fair value " can only be used as an observation. It's clearly shown from 2019 as overvalued but what can you do apart from go with the flow.? SP 500 stood at 3000 five years ago and now 6100 . Fancy selling up on that situation.

Probably comes from this kind of stuff where the US has spent years , decades , above fair value..

https://kajabi-storefron..._SP500_CAPE_Rainbow.png

https://www.ukdividendst.../sp500-cape-bear-market

The idea that US is overvalued only in recent years isn't correct . Generally it's carried a premium to the rest of the world . FIG 3 and 4 show this. Look at FIG 5 and Japan another eye opener.

https://yardeni.com/charts/forward-p-es/

Growth rates in rest of world are a fair bit slower than US.

https://yardeni.com/char...ll-country-world-ex-us/

MEG 8 are booming . Look at figure 4 where projections are 25% up to 5 years . They might be revised but that's all we can go off unless anybody has other ideas how to value this stuff. ?

https://yardeni.com/charts/sp-500-megacap-8/
1 user thanked Wave Action for this post.
Dexi on 26/01/2025(UTC)
ANDREW FOSTER
Posted: 26 January 2025 10:52:27(UTC)
#16

Joined: 23/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 8,101

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ben ski;332236 wrote:
I would note we've just had a phase (2022), where valuations mattered – in bonds. I'm skeptical of people who claim to have sold out of bonds just before the crash – only because, if you were looking at yields, you'd have sold out in 2014/15 ... And it didn't matter being 8 years too early, because you'd have done well in almost anything (with rates that low – everything rises).



Personally I sold out of bonds before the crash. I made comments to this effect in the transactions thread and the reasoning behind it. It wasn't based on yields at the time it was based on forecasts of inflation and rate rises. Which were the canary in the mine for anyone willing to listen.

I didn't have bonds in 2014/15, as I was still in accumulation and 100% equities.

What is there to be skeptical about?
4 users thanked ANDREW FOSTER for this post.
Sheerman on 26/01/2025(UTC), Thrugelmir on 26/01/2025(UTC), Special Kloud on 26/01/2025(UTC), Guest on 26/01/2025(UTC)
Thrugelmir
Posted: 26 January 2025 12:38:42(UTC)
#23

Joined: 01/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5,317

ANDREW FOSTER;332251 wrote:
ben ski;332236 wrote:
I would note we've just had a phase (2022), where valuations mattered – in bonds. I'm skeptical of people who claim to have sold out of bonds just before the crash – only because, if you were looking at yields, you'd have sold out in 2014/15 ... And it didn't matter being 8 years too early, because you'd have done well in almost anything (with rates that low – everything rises).



Personally I sold out of bonds before the crash. I made comments to this effect in the transactions thread and the reasoning behind it. It wasn't based on yields at the time it was based on forecasts of inflation and rate rises. Which were the canary in the mine for anyone willing to listen.

I didn't have bonds in 2014/15, as I was still in accumulation and 100% equities.

What is there to be skeptical about?


BOE base rate started declining from July 2007. The cheap money era started a long long time ago. Ran for 15 years finished in 2022. Be no great surprise if the current era doesn't end until 2040.........
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