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Financial Education in Schools
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NoMoreKickingCans
Posted: 05 November 2019 18:49:04(UTC)
#62

Joined: 26/02/2012(UTC)
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I think people get into problems with maths because it is a giant inverted pyramid - additional understanding requires more basic understanding to be in place first. Too many kids seem to miss out on some basic building blocks because they were looking out of the window on the day we did decimals or fractions etc. Once pieces of understanding are missing on-one wants to say...but I don’t understand fractions...they just seem to hide, guess, and/or give up.



"This is a one line proof, if we start sufficiently far to the left." :)
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Keith Clunk
Posted: 06 November 2019 06:48:07(UTC)
#64

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I remember doing Home Economics at school in the 70's, but my only recollection is of baking a chocolate cake which didn't rise particularly well.

Unfortunately many people look upon budgeting, saving and being careful with money in general as synonyms for being tight-fisted and stingy. The image of being in control of your own money could do with an update.

Any idiot can spend money, that's easy. Resisting temptation, such as not insisting on having the latest gadget, designer handbag, or new car, and understanding that credit is not free money would be a good start.
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3 users thanked Keith Clunk for this post.
Sara G on 06/11/2019(UTC), Captain Slugwash on 07/11/2019(UTC), Jasper40 on 07/04/2021(UTC)
Alan Selwood
Posted: 06 November 2019 15:23:42(UTC)
#65

Joined: 17/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,379
Keith Clunk;95351 wrote:
I remember doing Home Economics at school in the 70's, but my only recollection is of baking a chocolate cake which didn't rise particularly well.

Unfortunately many people look upon budgeting, saving and being careful with money in general as synonyms for being tight-fisted and stingy. The image of being in control of your own money could do with an update.

Any idiot can spend money, that's easy. Resisting temptation, such as not insisting on having the latest gadget, designer handbag, or new car, and understanding that credit is not free money would be a good start.



The Home Economics class was obviously as badly-taught as my own school's Art lessons in the 1950s.
(The problem being that you and I were given a task, a result was achieved - good bad or indifferent - but nobody then said 'Now that you've attempted that task, let's look at what worked well and what needed improvement : we'll work on it step by step to help you do it better next time'. End result - you have the weight of years that try to persuade you that you can't cook, and my lack of drawing skills was reinforced by the teacher, and he did nothing whatever to make me better at it. In fact he had no teaching skill at all - he preferred to do his own work and help just those with existing talent. And it was not our fault that we produced poor cooking and drawing results at school, but the teacher's)
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paul armstrong
Posted: 06 November 2019 15:32:01(UTC)
#66

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I don't have much faith in teachers so this is a nice idea but...As a comparison look at the quality of careers guidance. The timing has to be right for it to be meaningful and I suspect any information will just not stick, let alone modify future behaviour. However there are some clear principles:

You need to earn a living
The more you earn the more options you have
Don't spend money you haven't got ( except on housing)
Don't buy things you don't need
Don't buy things to impress yourself or your neighbours ( like expensive cars)
Don't smoke

Wish I had followed these :)
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2 users thanked paul armstrong for this post.
Keith Cobby on 11/11/2019(UTC), raybd on 16/11/2019(UTC)
King Lodos
Posted: 06 November 2019 16:34:35(UTC)
#67

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I'm quite torn on the liberal approach to careers guidance.

Kids are idealistic, and I think that's a good thing .. But I speak to people doing journalism degrees, who are going to be £60k in debt before they've had their first part-time job .. Most of the people I worked with/for in journalism lost their jobs 5 years ago – and every year there's another wave of underpaid hacks being laid off.

I gather the demand is for people with practical skills – this is why we import so many .. Academic qualifications don't guarantee you a job in a supermarket these days – schools should be encouraging far more students to go to trade schools
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3 users thanked King Lodos for this post.
Captain Slugwash on 07/11/2019(UTC), Tim D on 07/11/2019(UTC), Stephen Lockie on 16/11/2019(UTC)
Rob B
Posted: 06 November 2019 17:02:07(UTC)
#68

Joined: 07/10/2018(UTC)
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In my mind you can’t be an apprenticeship. You get paid, you get day / week release go to college / university, you begin the journey to chartership, you get experience in the workplace.

OK it takes commitment. But if you see out the financial ‘payback’ period you have money, you have a degree, you’re chartered, you have experience and you’re debt free. No brainer.

If I had the choice now of university (bearing in mind I crapped myself leaving with a £3K student loan debt in 1995) or an apprenticeship it would be a very easy decision.
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Captain Slugwash on 07/11/2019(UTC)
Alan Selwood
Posted: 06 November 2019 17:10:40(UTC)
#69

Joined: 17/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,379
Not easy.

I always think that you need to LOVE your work to be any good at it.
Equally, there is no point trying to do a job that doesn't exist.

I always feel for artists, writers, actors, etc because they do it for love but often don't get rewarded the way they deserve.

I have a young relative who is brilliant at ceramics, but knows that there's no point doing it as a career, because the revenue would not be enough.
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Alan Selwood
Posted: 06 November 2019 17:10:54(UTC)
#70

Joined: 17/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,379
Not easy.

I always think that you need to LOVE your work to be any good at it.
Equally, there is no point trying to do a job that doesn't exist.

I always feel for artists, writers, actors, etc because they do it for love but often don't get rewarded the way they deserve.

I have a young relative who is brilliant at ceramics, but knows that there's no point doing it as a career, because the revenue would not be enough.
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Tim D on 07/11/2019(UTC)
countrymum
Posted: 07 November 2019 07:14:48(UTC)
#63

Joined: 05/08/2019(UTC)
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NoMoreKickingCans;95326 wrote:
I think people get into problems with maths because it is a giant inverted pyramid - additional understanding requires more basic understanding to be in place first. Too many kids seem to miss out on some basic building blocks because they were looking out of the window on the day we did decimals or fractions etc. Once pieces of understanding are missing on-one wants to say...but I don’t understand fractions...they just seem to hide, guess, and/or give up.



"This is a one line proof, if we start sufficiently far to the left." :)


"Looking out of the window" - or perhaps were taken on a term-time holiday by their parents.....
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Tim D on 07/11/2019(UTC)
countrymum
Posted: 07 November 2019 07:28:46(UTC)
#34

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jvl;95218 wrote:
countrymum;95072 wrote:

To go back to the start - the original post (and the petition) is about getting KS1 and KS2 children (Primary School - aged 5 to 11) to be mandatorily taught Personal Finance - this included (according to the petition) "fundamental core competencies" such as "investing, types of savings, pensions, goal setting and planning, debt and how the financial system works".


The site says "Adding 'personal finance' as a compulsory subject on the UK's National Curriculum across Key Stages 1 to 4. E.g. ages 5-16. "Fundamental concepts like budgeting, investing, types of savings, pensions, goal setting and planning, debt and how the financial system works"

There are ways of introducing the concept of income, spending and savings gently over those key stages. E.g. Piggy banks for 5 year olds rather than SIPPs!

If the average family in the UK is spending £900 more than it earns, surely teaching kids that money doesn't grow on trees and there are choices to be made will start to help families quickly (e.g. reduce nagging at checkouts for sweets and toys)

"Adding this to the National Curriculum means that all state schools have to teach it, irrespective of the background and experiences of their pupils. This is vs the current situation, where financial education is not mandated, but is supported as part of a comprehensive programme."

Apparently only half of schools do teach personal finance, hence the petition to make it more than advisory.

Quote:
I'm therefore confused that you mention Degree subjects, which relates to those who are 18+

It says Key Stages 1 to 4. 4 (age 16) is getting close to degree time (and voting time). Don't you believe that what children are taught earlier influences their later choices?


We are probably reading the petition differently. I have no issue with introducing concepts early - and schools do do this. I took umbrage at the petitions wording / mandatory stance, which specified Personal Finance, not savings concepts and didn't clearly differentiate between the distinct needs, capacity and requirements of Primary vs Secondary school pupils.

I guess ultimately I would have a lot more support if they could have started from a background of experience and support for schools - for example "I volunteer as a School Governor in a school in a deprived area, with high levels of Pupil Premium children / English as a second language / SEN, and so I have a good understanding of how Primary Schools work. To support the pupils in my school, I have developed a toolkit for enhancing Financial understanding, and it has worked exceptionally well in this school. I would like to offer this toolkit out to all Primary Schools, to help all pupils gain the knowledge and experience, with the ultimate goal that if all Schools pick it up, then it will become part of the National Curriculum moving forwards". That, to me, would be far more helpful and constructive!
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jvl on 11/11/2019(UTC)
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