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Capital Gains Tax on UK property return
Tim D
Posted: 24 January 2024 16:58:59(UTC)
#13

Joined: 07/06/2017(UTC)
Posts: 8,883

So (thinking ahead a bit to the 2023-2024 tax return) we each have a chunk of our gains being hit for 28% ('cos that's the higher rate on "residential property" - see e.g https://www.gov.uk/capital-gains-tax/rates )

However it seems to me that it's well worth crystallizing any losses we can to defuse that. e.g if I have a beaten up bond fund with a £10k loss on it and dispose of it, that saves £2800 in tax on the property gains (or does it? see below).

The alternative would be to just sit on the £10k loss for now anticipating using it to offset some other gains in future... but then they'd only be worth £2k in tax relief even at higher rate.

So it seems to me to be a complete no-brainer to flog off every holding that's underwater and crystallize every loss we can because (not having another spare property to sell) we'll never have the opportunity to get such good value from those losses again.

But... I'm a bit suspicious that any time something looks like a no-brainer I'm misunderstanding something. For one thing it seems odd that assets which are "only" taxed at 20% on gains can have their losses used to counterbalance gains on assets which attract 28% tax on gains. So: how does the calculation actually work?

Is it more like (just considering the "big end" of the gain here)

- £50k of property gains taxed at 28% less £10k of bond fund losses is £40k of gains taxed at 28% (tax due £11.2K c.f £14k if the loss wasn't used... saving £2.8k)

or

- £50k of property gains taxed at 28% = £14k tax due less £10k of bond fund losses relieved at 20% = net £12k tax due (saving £2k vs. not using the loss).

or something else?

(This is sort of echoing my earlier comment about the fungibility or not of different "types" of gain/loss taxed at different rates... I really don't understand how it works. Any ideas?)
Keith Clunk
Posted: 26 January 2024 06:17:07(UTC)
#14

Joined: 07/05/2019(UTC)
Posts: 192

Thanks: 635 times
Was thanked: 640 time(s) in 148 post(s)
I've also wondered whether losses on shares affected gains on property.

I found this which seems to answer that question:

Quote:
Remember to offset losses against gains
If you have made capital losses in a tax year these can be offset against capital gains made in that same tax year. If losses exceed gains in any tax year, the excess can be carried forward and offset against gains made in the future, provided they have been disclosed to HMRC. For instance, if you sold shares at a loss and also made a gain on a property disposal, but the share losses were greater than the gain on the property sale, the excess losses can be carried forward and offset against future gains. If you have made losses, ensure you include them on your self-assessment tax return so they are disclosed to HMRC and can be used in the future.


I read the above as 'Yes'. Share loss CGT can be offset against property gain CGT.

https://rjp.co.uk/mitiga...capital-gains-tax-bill/
2 users thanked Keith Clunk for this post.
Guest on 26/01/2024(UTC), Tim D on 26/01/2024(UTC)
Tim D
Posted: 27 January 2024 12:39:07(UTC)
#9

Joined: 07/06/2017(UTC)
Posts: 8,883

Rookie Investor;293164 wrote:
17.6% is an amazing return, beating stocks I think. Add in leverage and your return on equity would be even greater.


A bit too amazing. That was a fat-finger error. The actual return on the price was 8.2%pa (then yield was in the range 0-4% on top of that after expenses, falling over the years).

In fact if the original price paid had actually compounded at 17.6% for 27.6 years, we'd have sold it for a mid seven figure sum instead of the six it did.

Another data point on the "fungibility of losses" thing: I went back and revised the submission, adjusting the PRR slightly downwards (dates I'd used were slightly out) but also claiming some OEIC losses crystallized earlier in the tax year (I hadn't bothered including these on the first submission). Looking at how that changed the CGT liability it's clear the OEIC losses have reduced the gains taxed at the 28% rate by the full value of the loss, not some lesser amount.

So, there will be some PF churn over the next couple months as remaining losses worth the hassle (mainly on bond and multiasset income funds hit by interest rate rises) get crystallized... and then some more given some of the things I'll sell are things I'll want to buy back after the requisite 30 days have elapsed. 2023-2024's tax return is going to have quite a fat CGT attachment.
Lex Further
Posted: 06 February 2024 11:19:22(UTC)
#15

Joined: 18/09/2021(UTC)
Posts: 181

It's understandable that you intended to offset the gains on the property with realized losses from other investments. However, it's important to note that only losses incurred before the exchange date of the property sale can be used to offset the gains. While it may seem frustrating that losses incurred shortly after the sale couldn't be utilized, this is a common aspect of tax regulations. As you mentioned, this should be reconciled when you file your SA tax return, and any excess losses should result in a refund or reduced tax liability. Checking International Development Services reviews and asking them for more professional advice might be a very good idea.
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