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ANDREW FOSTER
Posted: 15 February 2024 22:49:07(UTC)
#74

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The West, like the Roman Empire, faces it's demise by being too soft and too greedy.

Around the world dictators are on the rise on every corner.

And the bastion of the free world is now being taken over by conspiracy theory rednecks who believe that their own government is enemy number one and run by lizard people and Putin stands for conservative values.

Even the bolt holes like Australia are infected with wokiness and mass stupidity.

It will eventually all descend into war and some kind of dystopian mess

Luckily I won't be around to see it I think.
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Jay P on 15/02/2024(UTC), SSJ on 16/02/2024(UTC)
Jonathan Friend
Posted: 15 February 2024 23:08:35(UTC)
#75

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I reckon there's room at the next general election for third parties to sneak in between Uniparty Red and Uniparty Blue. They will both be losing votes for different reasons. A Labour landslide doesn't ring true somehow.
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8 users thanked Jonathan Friend for this post.
Jay P on 15/02/2024(UTC), Guest on 16/02/2024(UTC), guantou on 16/02/2024(UTC), stephen_s on 16/02/2024(UTC), Chalky W on 16/02/2024(UTC), Richard Lambert on 16/02/2024(UTC), Martina on 16/02/2024(UTC), Toadfish on 16/02/2024(UTC)
Jonathan Friend
Posted: 16 February 2024 09:28:30(UTC)
#76

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Jonathan Friend;296424 wrote:

Anyway, I reckon there's room at the next general election for third parties to sneak in between Uniparty Red and Uniparty Blue. They will both be losing votes for different reasons. A Labour landslide doesn't ring true somehow.


Looks like my prediction is sound in relation to the Kingswood and Wellongborough by-elections.

What looks like a massive swing to Labour requires some further consideration...

Turnout was 37-38% in both. Half what would be expected in a general election.

- In Kingswood, Labour got less votes than in the 2019 GE. The Conservative vote went down from 27,000 to 8,000.

- In Wellingborough, Labour got 100 more votes than in the GE. The Conservative vote went down from 32,000 to 7,000.

Something like 18,000 to 24,000 less people voted - most of those will have voted Tory in 2019 and won't be switching to Labour in significant numbers.

What this tells us is that Labour haven't really made any progress at all since 2019. And a very large proportion of people who previously voted Tory but didn't bother leaving the house for this by-election, would be trying to decide who to vote for at a general election.

This is where Reforn look interesting. They came third in both, the Lib Dems losing their deposits. It will only take half of the previous Tory voters to vote for them and they could win seats like these. So if you're conservative (want proper border control, law and order, an end to net zero, and kicking the woke crap) it's a case of: don't waste your vote on the Tories, and doing so will definitely let their identical twins in red in. Vote Reform.
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Keith Cobby on 16/02/2024(UTC), guantou on 16/02/2024(UTC), stephen_s on 16/02/2024(UTC), Chalky W on 16/02/2024(UTC), Richard Lambert on 16/02/2024(UTC), Jay P on 16/02/2024(UTC), Guest on 16/02/2024(UTC), Dexi on 16/02/2024(UTC), Martina on 16/02/2024(UTC), Guest on 16/02/2024(UTC)
Keith Cobby
Posted: 16 February 2024 10:12:19(UTC)
#79

Joined: 07/03/2012(UTC)
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Good showing by Reform, it doesn't matter if they don't pick up any seats as long as the Tories do very badly and it is clear that Reform is a major cause of their misery.
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7 users thanked Keith Cobby for this post.
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Robert D
Posted: 16 February 2024 11:21:21(UTC)
#78

Joined: 06/11/2016(UTC)
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What is shocking is that 8,675 people voted Conservative in the Kingswood constituency. Do people want more of the same chaos and corruption?

According to Conservative Central Office, the results were terrible for Starmer, ignoring that Wellingborough went red on a staggering 28.5 per cent swing — the second-biggest Tory to Labour swing in a by-election since 1945

Any other leader would have won 5 by-elections last night and cured cancer at the same time.
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Tim D on 16/02/2024(UTC)
SSJ
Posted: 16 February 2024 12:13:56(UTC)
#52

Joined: 13/09/2010(UTC)
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Robert D;296309 wrote:
SSJ;296308 wrote:

No, on his income of £433K he paid £163K income and dividend tax (up to 45% on his salary and interest, and 37.5% on his dividends - a higher rate than "ordinary middle income 40% tax payers".
On his capital gains of £1796K he paid £359K of capital gains tax - same 20% rate as everyone else pays, including you.

To make a political point, you are deliberately comparing to the 40% marginal rate of income tax to make it look as if he gets a special rate of income tax compared to the "workers". This is not about empathy (I'd happily buy him a one-way flight to California), it's about highlighting deception.


Sunak's overall tax rate was just 22.8 per cent, an insult to all people who worked for a living and paid much higher rates of tax than him

Does you think it is fair that his overall tax rate is about half the general population? That a multimillionaire like him is in effect a basic rate taxpayer?


If marginal rates of tax are giving you maths trouble or simply inconvenient results then let's play your game of "overall tax rate" on your new found friends, the "ordinary middle income 40% tax payers"...

Someone earning £60,000 pa will pay £11,432 of income tax - an "overall tax rate" of 19%.
So these so-called "40% tax payers" are actually paying a lower "overall rate" than those you would call "ordinary low income 20% tax payers". Is this an insult too? Or is it just a mathematical fact that a marginal rate of tax is always higher - sometimes massively - than the "overall rate" and that the two should not be compared?

To pay a "overall tax rate" of more than Sunak's 22.8% you would need to earn more than £73,070 pa.
So the people with whom you have such sympathy, those "who worked for a living and paid much higher rates of tax than him", are all earning more than £73,070 pa. I never knew you cared so much about the top 7% (ONS) of earners :)
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8 users thanked SSJ for this post.
Thrugelmir on 16/02/2024(UTC), Guest on 16/02/2024(UTC), Jonathan Friend on 16/02/2024(UTC), Newbie on 16/02/2024(UTC), ty bgt on 16/02/2024(UTC), MarkSp on 17/02/2024(UTC), ANDREW FOSTER on 17/02/2024(UTC), Jay P on 17/02/2024(UTC)
MarkSp
Posted: 17 February 2024 17:00:20(UTC)
#80

Joined: 02/02/2020(UTC)
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I know have eU passports for my kids
Wangling mine is going to be more difficult but, that is my master plan in the event of disaster
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1 user thanked MarkSp for this post.
Guest on 17/02/2024(UTC)
MarkSp
Posted: 17 February 2024 17:03:02(UTC)
#53

Joined: 02/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 2,199

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SSJ;296474 wrote:
Robert D;296309 wrote:
SSJ;296308 wrote:

No, on his income of £433K he paid £163K income and dividend tax (up to 45% on his salary and interest, and 37.5% on his dividends - a higher rate than "ordinary middle income 40% tax payers".
On his capital gains of £1796K he paid £359K of capital gains tax - same 20% rate as everyone else pays, including you.

To make a political point, you are deliberately comparing to the 40% marginal rate of income tax to make it look as if he gets a special rate of income tax compared to the "workers". This is not about empathy (I'd happily buy him a one-way flight to California), it's about highlighting deception.


Sunak's overall tax rate was just 22.8 per cent, an insult to all people who worked for a living and paid much higher rates of tax than him

Does you think it is fair that his overall tax rate is about half the general population? That a multimillionaire like him is in effect a basic rate taxpayer?


If marginal rates of tax are giving you maths trouble or simply inconvenient results then let's play your game of "overall tax rate" on your new found friends, the "ordinary middle income 40% tax payers"...

Someone earning £60,000 pa will pay £11,432 of income tax - an "overall tax rate" of 19%.
So these so-called "40% tax payers" are actually paying a lower "overall rate" than those you would call "ordinary low income 20% tax payers". Is this an insult too? Or is it just a mathematical fact that a marginal rate of tax is always higher - sometimes massively - than the "overall rate" and that the two should not be compared?

To pay a "overall tax rate" of more than Sunak's 22.8% you would need to earn more than £73,070 pa.
So the people with whom you have such sympathy, those "who worked for a living and paid much higher rates of tax than him", are all earning more than £73,070 pa. I never knew you cared so much about the top 7% (ONS) of earners :)


Paying 62% marginal deductions is a travesty but I don't hear anyone offering to fix that for me.
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2 users thanked MarkSp for this post.
Guest on 17/02/2024(UTC), SSJ on 17/02/2024(UTC)
MarkSp
Posted: 17 February 2024 17:59:21(UTC)
#77

Joined: 02/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 2,199

Thanks: 285 times
Was thanked: 5844 time(s) in 1734 post(s)
Jonathan Friend;296448 wrote:
Jonathan Friend;296424 wrote:

Anyway, I reckon there's room at the next general election for third parties to sneak in between Uniparty Red and Uniparty Blue. They will both be losing votes for different reasons. A Labour landslide doesn't ring true somehow.


Looks like my prediction is sound in relation to the Kingswood and Wellongborough by-elections.

What looks like a massive swing to Labour requires some further consideration...

Turnout was 37-38% in both. Half what would be expected in a general election.

- In Kingswood, Labour got less votes than in the 2019 GE. The Conservative vote went down from 27,000 to 8,000.

- In Wellingborough, Labour got 100 more votes than in the GE. The Conservative vote went down from 32,000 to 7,000.

Something like 18,000 to 24,000 less people voted - most of those will have voted Tory in 2019 and won't be switching to Labour in significant numbers.

What this tells us is that Labour haven't really made any progress at all since 2019. And a very large proportion of people who previously voted Tory but didn't bother leaving the house for this by-election, would be trying to decide who to vote for at a general election.

This is where Reforn look interesting. They came third in both, the Lib Dems losing their deposits. It will only take half of the previous Tory voters to vote for them and they could win seats like these. So if you're conservative (want proper border control, law and order, an end to net zero, and kicking the woke crap) it's a case of: don't waste your vote on the Tories, and doing so will definitely let their identical twins in red in. Vote Reform.


have you considered what would happen with the right to register "None of the above". Turout was down, fewer people bothered when being asked to chose between tweddle dum and tweedle dee or a selection of people with mental health issues.

I don't want Starmer and I don't want Sunak
I don't want "multiculturalism" that consists of allowing the creation of an alternative society within our own
I am not interested in how other people want to "identify". If it doesn't harm anyone else, the can identify as a turnip however I dont expect to fund that identity - noone is funding my choice FFS
I don't want Little Englanders and the EDL
I am bored
-by policies that consist of criticising the EU....the UK left the EU
-by the continual berating of "remoaners" in lieu of any positive policies to make things better
-blaming BREXIT for an economic malaise that started in the 1870's
-by politicians who couldn't tell the truth if their lives depended on it
- a society where "service" means "what;s in it for me"

What really worries me are the attacks on free speech, the singularity of allowable thought and the wholesale rewriting of history and the refusal to accept the context of that history.

I had an interesting meeting with a school SLT team which consisted of four young black women who gave me a lecture on "inclusivity"
It seems that teaching my boys that a persons sexuality was a personal matter and they should treat everyone equally and view each according to how they behaved as a human being was "reactionary" and wasn't helping my boys to fully embrace inclusivity.
They were unable to see the irony in the idea that their new "inclusivity" was only valid if you looked and thought and spoke like them.

It's raining, my new SMEG gas cooker has an electrical fault and a "live" chassis and I can only get AO to talk to me by leaving a scathing review on Trust Pilot. I have had to uninstall my new kitchen to get to the cooker power socket and Mrs S is not looking pleased.
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13 users thanked MarkSp for this post.
ANDREW FOSTER on 17/02/2024(UTC), jeffian on 17/02/2024(UTC), Newbie on 17/02/2024(UTC), MBA MBA on 17/02/2024(UTC), Guest on 17/02/2024(UTC), Jay P on 17/02/2024(UTC), bill xxxx on 17/02/2024(UTC), SSJ on 17/02/2024(UTC), andy mac on 18/02/2024(UTC), Adam Johnson on 18/02/2024(UTC), Dexi on 18/02/2024(UTC), Martina on 18/02/2024(UTC), Toadfish on 19/02/2024(UTC)
Jonathan Friend
Posted: 18 February 2024 08:04:19(UTC)
#82

Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 1,282

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Ask yourself this: how will the younger people start voting when they cotton on to how and why they've been so badly ripped off? Or, will they want to abandon democracy all together realising it is a sham hiding elites that make life worse for the majority of people?

https://www.mattgoodwin.org/p/th...ne-chart-tells-you-a-lot
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2 users thanked Jonathan Friend for this post.
Guest on 18/02/2024(UTC), Tim D on 18/02/2024(UTC)
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