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Gifts from Surplus Income for IHT purposes
D Bergman
Posted: 23 August 2021 12:01:33(UTC)
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D Bergman;182981 wrote:
Alonso;182969 wrote:


Thank you for posting this. It is very useful and an eye-opener. Just one question - how about the income from SIPP drawdown? If the gift was made from that, is that ok or would HMRC have problem with that?


I'm not 100% certain about drawdown, as some of it might be considered return of capital rather than income.
I have not been able to find any information about it - if the amount of drawdown makes most of the surplus income that you can give you might want to speak to a financial advisor.
Alternatively, you can just call HMRC and ask - you usually have to wait quite some time for them to answer but I've always found them (surprisingly) helpful.


Checking online I came across:

http://www.charlwoodleig...gifting%20exemption.pdf

Page 2 deals with this question:
"HMRC have confirmed to us that regular withdrawals from flexible pensions, irrespective of
the levels withdrawn and whether taken as tax free cash or taxable income, always count as
income for the purpose of the IHT exemption."

(But I would still check with HMRC).

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Money Spider on 23/08/2021(UTC)
D Bergman
Posted: 23 August 2021 12:11:01(UTC)
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Money Spider,

You mentioned in your first post (#10) that you apportioned household expenses 50:50 between your parents.

I always assumed that if, for example, our household income was split 65:35 between us, then I could apportion our expenses in the same way.
I don't actually do this at the moment, but do you (or anyone) have a view on this?
Money Spider
Posted: 23 August 2021 12:19:23(UTC)
#24

Joined: 11/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 171

@D Bergman
I don't see why you cannot apportion household expenses in any proportion that you choose, but (to be 'safe') you would need to be able to justify that claim in your records. I don't think there can be any reasonable challenge to a 50:50 apportionment where two people are the sole occupants of a property.

My father's income was greater than that of my mother, but as both were making Gifts from Income it didn't make any difference how the expenses were apportioned as all the 'surplus' was being gifted.
paul armstrong
Posted: 23 August 2021 12:22:33(UTC)
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Hmm. Why should expenses be in proportion to income ? If you switch a light on, do you see things more brightly, do you pay more at the petrol pump ?😁. I can see a counter argument as costs lie where they fall.
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D Bergman on 23/08/2021(UTC)
D Bergman
Posted: 23 August 2021 12:34:44(UTC)
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paul armstrong;182992 wrote:
Hmm. Why should expenses be in proportion to income ? If you switch a light on, do you see things more brightly, do you pay more at the petrol pump ?😁. I can see a counter argument as costs lie where they fall.


I see your point (and also Money Spider's), but how would one deal with this:

If we bought a £1M house, based on my income of £100K and my wife's £40K, should the mortgage and council tax expenses be 50:50?
Our expensive holidays are possible because of my higher income; how do we split them?

I suspect that both of you are correct and HMRC would take the view that a 50:50 split is the only one possible, but it's an interesting question.

Edit - just did some checking, and if we were to split expenditure 50:50, then as a result of differing incomes, in some years one of us would be in deficit rather than in surplus.
So would the higher-income partner need to allocate some of his surplus to clearing the other's deficit before figuring out the "true" surplus?

Opening a can of worms comes to mind!
paul armstrong
Posted: 23 August 2021 12:50:52(UTC)
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Perhaps that's one reason there is no iht on gifts to your spouse 😁.
Money Spider
Posted: 23 August 2021 12:56:54(UTC)
#28

Joined: 11/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 171

I think that you are over-thinking this. HMRC will likely accept what is reasonable.

So if (for example) you have an income of £100k p.a. but your wife is receiving a state pension of £8k p.a. and stays at home then it would not be unreasonable for you to pay a higher proportion of the expenses, but she could not then make gifts from income of £8k p.a. and claim that she has no expenses.

In the above hypothetical scenario I wouldn't claim that your wife makes any gifts from income. She might have other investments of course which gives her 'income'. She might have capital (which you might have gifted to her, free of tax between spouses) from which to make 'annual exempt gifts'.

Write it down. Does it look reasonable? If so, then it probably is.
However, I don't think that you can go wrong with 50:50.

Disclaimer:
Delete/insert: partner/significant other, he/she as your affinity to political correctness requires. ;-)
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D Bergman on 23/08/2021(UTC)
NoMoreKickingCans
Posted: 23 August 2021 13:39:00(UTC)
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Pensions can be left IHT free anyway.
Why would you draw more pension, paying income tax on it, to then gift to a child from surplus income ?
To give earlier ? To keep the pension capital below the LTA ?
2 users thanked NoMoreKickingCans for this post.
paul armstrong on 23/08/2021(UTC), Jimmy Page on 23/08/2021(UTC)
Alonso
Posted: 23 August 2021 15:13:43(UTC)
#32

Joined: 11/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 61

NoMoreKickingCans;183003 wrote:
Pensions can be left IHT free anyway.
Why would you draw more pension, paying income tax on it, to then gift to a child from surplus income ?
To give earlier ? To keep the pension capital below the LTA ?


Fair point and I can see what you are saying - though, sometimes, there could be a valid reason like paying for a deposit on first property or a big wedding gift or paying off university fee debt. (Debate about whether one should or not is a different thread!). Though, to keep the pension capital below LTA will not work, will it or am I not thinking right? As soon as you withdraw, it counts towards your % LTA and adds to the total %.
Jimmy Page
Posted: 23 August 2021 15:19:32(UTC)
#31

Joined: 11/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 1,686

NoMoreKickingCans;183003 wrote:
Pensions can be left IHT free anyway.
Why would you draw more pension, paying income tax on it, to then gift to a child from surplus income ?
To give earlier ? To keep the pension capital below the LTA ?

Yes, to both.
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