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A grown-up, dispassionate assessment of Brexit
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Tim D
Posted: 12 February 2023 02:06:28(UTC)
#872

Joined: 07/06/2017(UTC)
Posts: 8,883
ANDREW FOSTER;257306 wrote:
Tim D;257300 wrote:
Apparently there's been a "secret" cross-party summit on how to get friendly with Europe again
https://www.theguardian....ront-failings-of-brexit



Good, excellent.

Eventually the wheels begin to turn again and everyone stops folding their arms and huffing about everything. There is some apparent progress on Northern Ireland too it seems.

It's good if all parties are now willing to work for the UK rather than against it.


Funny... a few years ago this sort of thing (the summit) would have been decried as a "sell out" of Brexit... the establishment attempting a stitch-up leading inexorably to the dreaded BRINO. And yet here you chaps are now positively celebrating that prospect. Fascinating.

I see Farage is sticking to the hard-core line WRT this summit:
https://mobile.twitter.c...tus/1624517638649946112

ANDREW FOSTER;257306 wrote:
Shame it has taken so long but we all know why that is.


Well yes... demagogues like Farage and the ERG having a hissy fit at the slightest sign of any backsliding. But their influence seems to be greatly diminished now everyone can see what a crock they've lumbered us with.
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Tim D
Posted: 12 February 2023 02:15:36(UTC)
#884

Joined: 07/06/2017(UTC)
Posts: 8,883
While I'm here, for some light relief this "reasons to invest in the UK" is rather good:
https://www.tiktok.com/@larryandpaul/video/7195597396137561349
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ANDREW FOSTER on 12/02/2023(UTC)
Jimmy Page
Posted: 12 February 2023 06:58:26(UTC)
#863

Joined: 11/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 1,686
Robert D;257308 wrote:
Spartacus;257264 wrote:
Tim D;257260 wrote:


Brexiteer's dilemma: is the end goal to be able to import cheap stuff tax-free, or to rebuild British manufacturing and self-sufficiency?


Brexiteers promised both and many mugs believed it, but neither is happening.

In the latest blow to Biritsh manufacturing, AZ is building a new plant in Ireland instead of Britain.



It's part of a pattern of Big Pharma moving facilities out of Britain to the EU because of Brexit

The neoliberal Brexiteers bleat on about taxes but even if we were a tax-dodging haven like Ireland these jobs would still be leaving the UK because of lack of access to the single market

And if it was just about the tax rate, they can go to Estonia. It’s about location, a well educated society, a young society, and part of a 450m trading bloc

And one where they don't riot about foreigners moving in

I take it you you couldn't find a single piece of evidence to support your claim that AZ went to Ireland 'cos brexit, then.

Your comment about immigration protests is also entirely wrong isn't it?

Google Ireland anti-immigration protests.
https://www.independent....a-offices-42337530.html

https://www.theguardian....dublin-ireland-refugees

And while you're there, keep looking for any substantiation of your AZ claim.

https://news.sky.com/sto...ory-in-ireland-12807753

https://www.fiercepharma...d-decision-build-ireland
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ANDREW FOSTER
Posted: 12 February 2023 07:36:54(UTC)
#864

Joined: 23/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 8,120

Thanks: 11360 times
Was thanked: 18230 time(s) in 5978 post(s)
Robert D;257308 wrote:


And one where they don't riot about foreigners moving in


LOL really?

I guess you aren't including France, Belgium, Germany and even Sweden in that group then.

All have had mass rioting related to refugees and asylum seekers.

Maybe you've decided to blank those from your mind?


Let me refresh your memory...


https://www.reuters.com/...ation-debate-2023-01-17/
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stephen_s on 12/02/2023(UTC)
ANDREW FOSTER
Posted: 12 February 2023 07:59:12(UTC)
#877

Joined: 23/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 8,120

Thanks: 11360 times
Was thanked: 18230 time(s) in 5978 post(s)
Tim D;257310 wrote:
ANDREW FOSTER;257306 wrote:
Tim D;257300 wrote:
Apparently there's been a "secret" cross-party summit on how to get friendly with Europe again
https://www.theguardian....ront-failings-of-brexit



Good, excellent.

Eventually the wheels begin to turn again and everyone stops folding their arms and huffing about everything. There is some apparent progress on Northern Ireland too it seems.

It's good if all parties are now willing to work for the UK rather than against it.


Funny... a few years ago this sort of thing (the summit) would have been decried as a "sell out" of Brexit... the establishment attempting a stitch-up leading inexorably to the dreaded BRINO. And yet here you chaps are now positively celebrating that prospect. Fascinating.

I see Farage is sticking to the hard-core line WRT this summit:
https://mobile.twitter.c...tus/1624517638649946112

ANDREW FOSTER;257306 wrote:
Shame it has taken so long but we all know why that is.


Well yes... demagogues like Farage and the ERG having a hissy fit at the slightest sign of any backsliding. But their influence seems to be greatly diminished now everyone can see what a crock they've lumbered us with.



Well it might be a hard concept to grasp that there are people that want to make the UK successful and work out solutions to any problems and issues.

As I've said there are many determined to stamp their feet and try to cause failure so they can say 'told you so'. Even if that means poorer lives for their constituents.

If even the likes of David Lammy are coming on board it's a positive sign. The dinosaurs on both sides will be left behind.

I want to see the relationship with the EU to be positive and mutually beneficial. The way it should be. Which is different being locked in a toxic membership of it.

It's rather like having a civilised relationship with an ex-spouse that allows financial affairs to be dealt with, but being out of the abusive marriage itself.

It's not BRINO as we are out now. The position is different. We can now discuss matters of mutual benefit from a clean slate, unlike the feeble attempt Cameron made before the vote.

I have always expected a period of consolidation and the ripples needing to be smoothed. And that it seems, is what is happening now.

Aren't you pleased at this prospect of increased positive co-operation? ...or are you in the group that wants the relationship with the EU to be sour in the hope of re-joining at any cost? Genuine question as to how you stand on that...😉 Are you polarised like Farage or pragmatic like Gove and Lammy?
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4 users thanked ANDREW FOSTER for this post.
Jimmy Page on 12/02/2023(UTC), Tim D on 12/02/2023(UTC), Jonathan Friend on 12/02/2023(UTC), stephen_s on 12/02/2023(UTC)
Jimmy Page
Posted: 12 February 2023 08:02:42(UTC)
#885

Joined: 11/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 1,686
What he said.^^
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You have to change your life
Posted: 12 February 2023 11:23:54(UTC)
#880

Joined: 17/11/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,194

Thanks: 730 times
Was thanked: 1798 time(s) in 972 post(s)
ANDREW FOSTER;257315 wrote:


As I've said there are many determined to stamp their feet and try to cause failure so they can say 'told you so'. Even if that means poorer lives for their constituents.



Aren't you pleased at this prospect of increased positive co-operation? ...or are you in the group that wants the relationship with the EU to be sour in the hope of re-joining at any cost? Genuine question as to how you stand on that...😉 Are you polarised like Farage or pragmatic like Gove and Lammy?



One mourns for a decent barista or a "can do" Polish plasterer working on stilts but we get on with it: Remainers cannot be victims, that is the domain of Leavers.

It makes me laugh when I read that I cause your failure. Are you unlucky at chess, too?
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Mr Spock on 12/02/2023(UTC)
Tim D
Posted: 12 February 2023 12:11:57(UTC)
#878

Joined: 07/06/2017(UTC)
Posts: 8,883
Re https://www.theguardian....ront-failings-of-brexit

ANDREW FOSTER;257315 wrote:
Aren't you pleased at this prospect of increased positive co-operation? ...or are you in the group that wants the relationship with the EU to be sour in the hope of re-joining at any cost? Genuine question as to how you stand on that...😉 Are you polarised like Farage or pragmatic like Gove and Lammy?


Well indeed I am absolutely delighted that the government seems to be finally recognizing there are "failings of Brexit" and a need to "remedy them in the national interest" and to "reduce the some the current frictions that have seriously damaged UK exports to the EU in particular" and finally seems to be doing something about it (with Labour providing cover to protect Sunak from the ERG; smooth move). Because until recently the official line was that it was all going swimmingly (and you only have to look back in this thread to find folks claiming the same).

Admitting there were serious issues and real damage was always going to be a necessary step towards improving the situation, and it looks like we've finally got there.

The Brexit rocketship, having launched, seems to have realized it's not reached the escape velocity needed to get to the stars but is instead sliding back into the massive sucking gravity of the EU... at best to achieve a decaying low earth orbit amongst the Starlink (or should that be OneWeb?) satellites.
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1 user thanked Tim D for this post.
ANDREW FOSTER on 12/02/2023(UTC)
Mr Spock
Posted: 12 February 2023 12:36:31(UTC)
#886

Joined: 19/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 327
Brexit dividend, Global Britain…what a circus.

Not sure I can have fruitful discussions with those who say they would rather eat grass than being in Europe.
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ANDREW FOSTER
Posted: 12 February 2023 13:02:11(UTC)
#879

Joined: 23/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 8,120

Thanks: 11360 times
Was thanked: 18230 time(s) in 5978 post(s)
Tim D;257336 wrote:
Re https://www.theguardian....ront-failings-of-brexit

ANDREW FOSTER;257315 wrote:
Aren't you pleased at this prospect of increased positive co-operation? ...or are you in the group that wants the relationship with the EU to be sour in the hope of re-joining at any cost? Genuine question as to how you stand on that...😉 Are you polarised like Farage or pragmatic like Gove and Lammy?


Well indeed I am absolutely delighted that the government seems to be finally recognizing there are "failings of Brexit" and a need to "remedy them in the national interest" and to "reduce the some the current frictions that have seriously damaged UK exports to the EU in particular" and finally seems to be doing something about it (with Labour providing cover to protect Sunak from the ERG; smooth move). Because until recently the official line was that it was all going swimmingly (and you only have to look back in this thread to find folks claiming the same).



Ok so for whatever reasons we are both happy with this development.

Finally leavers and remainders starting to takes steps in the same direction to resolve the outstanding issues.

It's all good 🤗
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Tim D on 12/02/2023(UTC)
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