Funds Insider - Opening the door to funds

Welcome to the Citywire Funds Insider Forums, where members share investment ideas and discuss everything to do with their money.

You'll need to log in or set up an account to start new discussions or reply to existing ones. See you inside!

Notification

Icon
Error
Preparing for a Lab Govt
+ Reply to discussion
Options
SSJ
Posted: 15 February 2024 00:43:18(UTC)
#50

Joined: 13/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 512

Thanks: 1073 times
Was thanked: 1025 time(s) in 397 post(s)
Robert D;296307 wrote:
SSJ;296293 wrote:
Robert D;296225 wrote:
Higher taxes or closing tax loopholes on the wealthy - yes. Sunak's tax returns last week showed he paid a 22.8% tax rate on earnings of £2.3 million. There are many thousands like him. How is that fair on ordinary middle income 40% tax payers?

Sunak paid up to 45% on his salary and interest, and 37.5% on his dividends, i.e. more than "ordinary middle income 40% tax payers" pay on their income. He also paid the same capital gains tax rate as "ordinary middle income 40% tax payers" do if they have capital gains.

(It's all there in the same data from which you calculated 22.8%.)



He paid around £500,000 tax on circa £2.3 million income, a tax rate of 22.8.%. The figures are easily available.

No, on his income of £433K he paid £163K income and dividend tax (up to 45% on his salary and interest, and 37.5% on his dividends - a higher rate than "ordinary middle income 40% tax payers".
On his capital gains of £1796K he paid £359K of capital gains tax - same 20% rate as everyone else pays, including you.

To make a political point, you are deliberately comparing to the 40% marginal rate of income tax to make it look as if he gets a special rate of income tax compared to the "workers". This is not about empathy (I'd happily buy him a one-way flight to California), it's about highlighting deception.
Back to top Quote
10 users thanked SSJ for this post.
Guest on 15/02/2024(UTC), ANDREW FOSTER on 15/02/2024(UTC), Captain Slugwash on 15/02/2024(UTC), Newbie on 15/02/2024(UTC), Dexi on 15/02/2024(UTC), stephen_s on 15/02/2024(UTC), Zach F on 15/02/2024(UTC), Toadfish on 16/02/2024(UTC), DL3 on 19/02/2024(UTC), Andrew1952 on 25/02/2024(UTC)
Robert D
Posted: 15 February 2024 01:07:40(UTC)
#51

Joined: 06/11/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,482

[/quote]
No, on his income of £433K he paid £163K income and dividend tax (up to 45% on his salary and interest, and 37.5% on his dividends - a higher rate than "ordinary middle income 40% tax payers".
On his capital gains of £1796K he paid £359K of capital gains tax - same 20% rate as everyone else pays, including you.

To make a political point, you are deliberately comparing to the 40% marginal rate of income tax to make it look as if he gets a special rate of income tax compared to the "workers". This is not about empathy (I'd happily buy him a one-way flight to California), it's about highlighting deception.
[/quote]

Sunak's overall tax rate was just 22.8 per cent, an insult to all people who worked for a living and paid much higher rates of tax than him

Does you think it is fair that his overall tax rate is about half the general population? That a multimillionaire like him is in effect a basic rate taxpayer?
Back to top Quote
ANDREW FOSTER
Posted: 15 February 2024 07:22:24(UTC)
#54

Joined: 23/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 8,125

Thanks: 11371 times
Was thanked: 18237 time(s) in 5983 post(s)
Robert D;296309 wrote:


No, on his income of £433K he paid £163K income and dividend tax (up to 45% on his salary and interest, and 37.5% on his dividends - a higher rate than "ordinary middle income 40% tax payers".
On his capital gains of £1796K he paid £359K of capital gains tax - same 20% rate as everyone else pays, including you.

To make a political point, you are deliberately comparing to the 40% marginal rate of income tax to make it look as if he gets a special rate of income tax compared to the "workers". This is not about empathy (I'd happily buy him a one-way flight to California), it's about highlighting deception.
[/quote]

Sunak's overall tax rate was just 22.8 per cent, an insult to all people who worked for a living and paid much higher rates of tax than him

Does you think it is fair that his overall tax rate is about half the general population? That a multimillionaire like him is in effect a basic rate taxpayer?

[/quote]

What should the rate of CGT be in the UK in your view?

Back to top Quote
3 users thanked ANDREW FOSTER for this post.
Keith Cobby on 15/02/2024(UTC), Guest on 15/02/2024(UTC), stephen_s on 15/02/2024(UTC)
Keith Cobby
Posted: 15 February 2024 08:09:59(UTC)
#59

Joined: 07/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5,064

Thanks: 5967 times
Was thanked: 12448 time(s) in 3858 post(s)
The answer to the ridiculously complicated tax system is to have a flat rate where everyone pays the same percentage on income and capital gains. High marginal rates are directly affecting the growth rate and are a major cause of low productivity. Many people are working abroad or emigrating to countries which confiscate less of their earnings.
Back to top Quote
2 users thanked Keith Cobby for this post.
Guest on 15/02/2024(UTC), Peter1598753 on 18/02/2024(UTC)
Robert D
Posted: 15 February 2024 09:14:20(UTC)
#60

Joined: 06/11/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,482
Keith Cobby;296320 wrote:
The answer to the ridiculously complicated tax system is to have a flat rate where everyone pays the same percentage on income and capital gains. High marginal rates are directly affecting the growth rate and are a major cause of low productivity. Many people are working abroad or emigrating to countries which confiscate less of their earnings.



Flat taxes favour higher income groups. So that's just another plea for the already rich to corner more wealth for themselves.
Back to top Quote
1 user thanked Robert D for this post.
Tim D on 15/02/2024(UTC)
Newbie
Posted: 15 February 2024 09:29:07(UTC)
#61

Joined: 31/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,819

Thanks: 6014 times
Was thanked: 7032 time(s) in 2604 post(s)
Robert D;296326 wrote:
Keith Cobby;296320 wrote:
The answer to the ridiculously complicated tax system is to have a flat rate where everyone pays the same percentage on income and capital gains. High marginal rates are directly affecting the growth rate and are a major cause of low productivity. Many people are working abroad or emigrating to countries which confiscate less of their earnings.



Flat taxes favour higher income groups. So that's just another plea for the already rich to corner more wealth for themselves.

So which is fairer
- a husband, wife, and 2 children all earn £12k each - thus have a household income of £48k and no income tax to pay or
- a husband earning £48k (above the national average) and paying 20% income tax or
- the same family living off the state attaining free accommodation, no/reduced costs such as council taxes etc.
Back to top Quote
4 users thanked Newbie for this post.
Keith Cobby on 15/02/2024(UTC), Guest on 15/02/2024(UTC), Dexi on 15/02/2024(UTC), stephen_s on 15/02/2024(UTC)
Robert D
Posted: 15 February 2024 09:31:34(UTC)
#55

Joined: 06/11/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,482
ANDREW FOSTER;296316 wrote:

What should the rate of CGT be in the UK in your view?




Taxing the same rate of tax on capital gains as income would raise £12 billion a year.

And restricting tax relief on pension contributions so everyone gets relief at the same tax rate, whatever their income, would raise £14.5 billion a year.

Two simple measures that would make the tax system simpler and fairer, and incidentally, total almost the £28 billion that the Labour wrongly claims the country doesn't have
Back to top Quote
1 user thanked Robert D for this post.
ANDREW FOSTER on 15/02/2024(UTC)
Keith Cobby
Posted: 15 February 2024 09:38:05(UTC)
#62

Joined: 07/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5,064

Thanks: 5967 times
Was thanked: 12448 time(s) in 3858 post(s)
We are in recession, yet the population continues to grow by hundreds of thousands each year. What are these people doing, it's obvious that it's nothing productive, they are consuming public services which are being paid for by workers paying punitive marginal rates of income tax. It doesn't matter what proportion of tax Sunak pays, he won't be here paying tax under a Labour government. The high tax burden is affecting productivity and growth, and unless public spending is cut (and more people get back to work) we are in the 'doom loop'.
Back to top Quote
4 users thanked Keith Cobby for this post.
ANDREW FOSTER on 15/02/2024(UTC), Guest on 15/02/2024(UTC), Dexi on 15/02/2024(UTC), stephen_s on 15/02/2024(UTC)
ANDREW FOSTER
Posted: 15 February 2024 09:59:00(UTC)
#56

Joined: 23/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 8,125

Thanks: 11371 times
Was thanked: 18237 time(s) in 5983 post(s)
Robert D;296331 wrote:
ANDREW FOSTER;296316 wrote:

What should the rate of CGT be in the UK in your view?




Taxing the same rate of tax on capital gains as income would raise £12 billion a year.

And restricting tax relief on pension contributions so everyone gets relief at the same tax rate, whatever their income, would raise £14.5 billion a year.

Two simple measures that would make the tax system simpler and fairer, and incidentally, total almost the £28 billion that the Labour wrongly claims the country doesn't have


I can see a case for both of those measures.... particularly the pension relief.
Back to top Quote
Robert D
Posted: 15 February 2024 10:07:00(UTC)
#63

Joined: 06/11/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,482
Sunak's tax rate and that of tens of thousands like him matters because it's another indication of the wealthy in the UK avoidng tax and not paying their fair share. The economy is in recession because interest rates are too high and should not have been raised in the first place because inflation was always going to come down naturally.
Back to top Quote
10 Pages«Previous page45678Next page»
+ Reply to discussion

Markets

Other markets